As parents, our children tend to be a focal point of our lives, and when we have spouses and partners sometimes those relationships get neglected. Hear from Jonathan Douglass, a Licensed Professional Counselor who specializes in marriage and relationships, about the importance of intentional connection with your partner. Plus, stick around till the end as we invite his wife, and our Chief Mom Ambassador, Annie Douglass on to hear how they make their marriage thrive with three kids and two busy careers.
As parents, our children tend to be a focal point of our lives, and when we have spouses and partners sometimes those relationships get neglected. Hear from Jonathan Douglass, a Licensed Professional Counselor who specializes in marriage and relationships, about the importance of intentional connection with your partner. Plus, stick around till the end as we invite his wife, and our Chief Mom Ambassador, Annie Douglass on to hear how they make their marriage thrive with three kids and two busy careers.
Welcome to Raising Healthy Families with Moms Meet and KIWI. We're giving you the tools to enjoy the beauty and chaos of life with little ones in the healthiest way possible.
Maureen:Hi, everyone. I'm Maureen Frost, editorial director of KIWI magazine and one of your Raising Healthy Families hosts. As parents, our children tend to be a focal point of our lives. And when we have spouses and partners, sometimes those relationships get neglected. Today we're joined by Jonathan Douglass, a licensed professional counselor to talk about the importance of intentional connection with your partner and hear advice on how to keep your relationship happy and healthy. Do you and your family love the taste of ketchup but does like the amount of sugar added to most brands? True Made Foods has a healthier alternative for you. Their no sugar veggie ketchup is naturally sweetened with apples butternut squash and carrots. In fact, each bottle contains more than half a gallon of American grown fruits and veggies with the same iconic ketchup tastes you expected every barbecue and cookout. This delicious ketchup is also Non-GMO Project verified and whole 30, paleo and keto certified. Even your family's pickiest eaters will love it for dipping, dunking and squeezing. Today we're joined by Jonathan Douglass, a licensed professional counselor and Licensed Clinical alcohol and drug counselor specializing in marriage and relationship counseling. Using empirically supported therapy approaches, he provides therapy and counseling, as well as consultation and coaching to individuals, couples and families of all backgrounds. If you're thinking his name sounds familiar, it's because he's also the husband of our moms meet Chief Mom Ambassador and Executive Vice President Annie Douglass. Alright, Jon, thank you so much for joining us today.
Jonathan Douglass:Yeah, thanks for having me Maureen
Maureen:Excited to get into this conversation with you. You know, I hope that I learned a lot I can bring back to my relationship too. So to get started, can you tell us a little bit more about what you do as a counselor and what made you want to become an LPC?
Jonathan Douglass:Yeah, so I'm a sort of general practice, licensed professional counselor, which means I see people from all walks and all issues and kind of whatever they're struggling with. But I have a couple primary focuses. And I do see primarily marriage and family relationships. So I consider myself a relationship counselor, although I did a lot of work with addiction. And so I have a lot of big background in addiction, and also trauma. So I'll explain more about kind of how all those came to be. What made me want to be a counselor was kind of like a lot of people who are in this field is that I had a lot of I had my own problems, and then did my own work in addiction, coming out of a pretty serious drug addiction and going through the process of doing my own work. And individually finding out why those issues, were there dealing with the underlying issues. And then also the relational issues that happened as a result of that damage. Really kind of led to I fell in love with the counseling process, and ended up back at school.
Maureen:That's awesome. So as we focus on more of the relationship side, what are the benefits for a couple and go into marriage and relationship counseling?
Jonathan Douglass:So I see, mainly people who come to me, people don't usually go to a doctor unless there's a problem, you know. So a lot of times marriages come to see me when they're in catastrophe, or they're in crisis. And so that's obviously one of the benefits is that it can help you get through crisis. And it is easier or better, I think, to invest in in trying to save the relationship than it is to go through a costly divorce. So a lot of times people see me as their last resort. And, you know, we're going to try this before we get divorced. But I always love it when people come and see me before they're at that point of crisis, because the reality is marriage is hard. And no, there aren't really a lot of instruction manuals, we aren't most of us don't see a really great healthy marriage modeled. And so it is, we come to this diff- super difficult thing in our lives without a lot with a very limited instruction or understanding. And then we just kind of have to figure it out. And then we wonder why it goes wrong, you know, or why it's so hard. And so I think it's when people come to the place where they're finally willing to whether that's crisis or whether it's, you're just thinking you want to have a better marriage, whatever the case is, every relationship can benefit from marriage counseling, because there it is. It's one of the hardest things, being in relationship is one of the hardest things that will probably ever have to do. Anybody who's married knows marriage is hard, or in a relationship, and those relationships are hard.
Maureen:Yeah, absolutely. And what do you what are the most of the reasons that you see like, what's the top reasons that you see people coming in to get help from you?
Jonathan Douglass:For relationships?
Maureen:Yeah, for relationships? Yeah, like couples like well, why are they coming to see you? What are their main issues with with what's going on in their relationship?
Jonathan Douglass:Most of the time, it has to do with communication, communication, learning how to get along, a breakdown of intimacy. So often, I think, you know, we start off strong, we start off on a on a good page. And then we just kind of grow apart. One of the core concepts that I talked about is intimacy requires intentionality. It doesn't just happen by accident. And I think a lot of times, again, we come into relationship, believing that it should be, which is one of the most defeating thoughts in the world is the belief that things should be a certain way. And then when reality hits us, we were not prepared for that. And we're end up defeated, discouraged, frustrated, resentful, because it's not happening the way that it should be. I can't tell you the number of times where I have people come in, and they say to me, it wasn't supposed to be like this. This is, you know, this is it's not supposed to be this hard. I didn't sign up for this. That's probably one of my favorite things when people come in, and they say, I didn't sign up for this. And I say, oh, did you write your own vows? And they said, No, I didn't write my own vows. So only you signed up for this because you for better for worse for richer for poorer, sickness and in health, you signed up for a pal?
Maureen:I mean, it is hard, because when you start a relationship, there's not as many stressors on it. And then as you you know, if you get married or have a partnership with somebody, you continue on, and you might have property together, you have kids and the stressors of that and you go through ups and downs, whether it be health or, or jobs or anything of that. And it does an even just the like regular everyday stuff. It just, it just piles on and it's hard. It definitely it is my husband and I've been together for I think, almost 12 years, married for four. But like, we're in that crazy, like, little kid stage where you get like an hour to yourself a day, and the stresses of it are just, you know, monumental. So I understand that, that it's different. We look back at pictures of ourselves. And we're like, Ah, so well rested, just having so much free time. And look how happy we were. I mean, we're so happy now to but like the life is different. But you know, it is sometimes hard to come to grips with the changes. But you did sign on for that for better for worse. And here we go. Sometimes it's it's a little of both.
Jonathan Douglass:Well, I think I think that I have to embrace the hard. That's that's the problem is that I think that it's supposed to be easy. You know, I share the story a lot. And I love the stories. I took a kid snowboarding took my kids and this other kid snowboarding one day and on the way up to the mountain this kid kept telling us he'd never snowboard a day in his life. But on the way to the mountain. He said I'm going to be an awesome snowboarder. I'm going to be an awesome snowboarder. And he didn't listen to any of the instructions on the way up to the mountain. He didn't pay any attention to anything that we said when we got up there. We rented the equipment we got out on the mountain. And he did what most people do when they snowboard for the first time is he bit it face first down the mountain about four times in a row. Then each time he does that each time he falls he gets more angry. And as he gets more angry, he gets worse, which we all do. So as he's getting more angry, and you know, he's getting worse and worse. And he's just falling faster and faster. And after about four or five times he starts taking off his board and he goes, this is stupid. There must be something wrong with my board. I don't want to do this anymore. And for me, this was a pivotal moment. Because I got to run in front of this kid and I kind of grabbed him by the shoulders. I said Look at me. I said the problem isn't that this is hard. This is supposed to be hard. The problem is that you thought this was supposed to be easy. I said, I don't want you to learn how to snowboard today. I just want you to learn how to fall, right? Because it's a lot easier when you fall uphill. You're basically just sitting down. Then when you fall face first downhill. I said do you think that you can learn how to just sit down today? And he's like, Well, yeah, I guess I could sit down. I said good. All I want you to do is learn how to sit down today. And that kid got up and he started snowing. boarding a snowboard and for the rest of the day, I think a lot of us in our relationships, you know, are expecting them to be easy. And then when things get hard, we think, Wait a minute, this is stupid. I didn't sign up for this, there's must be something wrong with my board. I don't want to do this anymore. And, and where you know, it that one defeating thought has more power than, than so many other things.
Maureen:Right. So what would you say are some of the important foundations for a healthy relationship with your partner or with your spouse?
Jonathan Douglass:Yeah, so I mean, I, I think good communication. But more importantly, for me, has been learning to look at my own part in the relationship. And that is the reality or the, I think one of the most powerful things I've learned in relationship is nothing that is going on in my spouse is about me. She's living in our own world, in her own reality with our own narrative, her own problems, her own resentments, her own wounds, her own fears, all of that filtering through her experiences day in and day out. And it doesn't really have anything to do with me. And when I one of my biggest struggles is I take everything personally, that she does or says, And for years, this was the problem I you know, she'd come up and say, and that and then I'd hear through those filters of my own anger, resentment, wounds, and she would come up and say, Hey, why don't you take out the trash? And I would hear and swear that I heard you never take out the trash is useless piece of crap, you know? And then I've been I would get furious. And we would be fighting. I'm like, Why can't you appreciate me? Why can't you? You know? Why can't you encourage me and the reality was, whatever was going on in her wasn't even about me. And it was about my issues, my shame, my insecurity that I needed to work on. So when I've, when I've worked on my part, looking at my part, and just acknowledging where I am and falling short in the relationship, I have never been perfect. I have never yet reached perfection to where I can start doing her inventory. And looking at her part, there's always something I could be doing differently. So as long as I'm holding on to that mindset, and looking at what I need to work on, I can avoid so much conflict.
Maureen:And that's one of the harder things to do to look at yourself and see what you can work on. So like you said, we will be plenty busy doing that ourselves. That's a really good point, I'm gonna take that back into my own relationship. We touched on the fact that communication is one of the top reasons things that are important in a relationship. So what are some of the ways that we can work on communicating more effectively with our partner?
Jonathan Douglass:Yeah. So I think, again, what happens so often in the breakdown in communication is that we will hear through those filters, and we will miss hear things. So I can't tell you the number of times where I'll be sitting with people and they'll say, Well, you even just in a session where they'll say, you just said and and he's looking at her she's looking at him going I didn't say that. And they you know, one of the most frustrating fights for me or arguments for me is where we are arguing about what we are arguing about, you know, it is a stupid fight. You said this, this and this. And then No, I didn't say that, that I didn't say that. I didn't mean that. And, you know, we get into this place where we're just bickering over what was actually said. So I started I for me, one of the biggest things to learn is to maybe just maybe, I misheard you, if I'm, if I'm like hurt, wounded and offended or bothered by something. What about what you said, if I can practice these, this this short phrase, from seven, they quoted in Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and they also but it's from the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi, where it says, first seek to understand, then to be understood, if I can do that, in my relationships, if I can do that, in my conversations, all of us want to be heard, seen and understood. It's this basic need this basic human desires to be heard, seen and understood. If I can, knowing that, give that to her first, then she is way more likely to try to give that to me. So first seek to understand then to be understood where I first want to be understood usually, is same thing applies with my kids. I want them to understand me. I want them to make I want to make sure they understand me rather than going into Hey, listen, let me understand what what they're thinking, where they're coming from. And usually man, 9 times out of 10, when I really understand what my wife is saying, what she wants, how she's feeling, where she's coming from, then the needing to be understood part really is less and less important.
Maureen:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You know this while you have three kids yourself, and adding kids to the equation just makes for, you know, a lot more stress and a lot of difficulties. So, what are some of the common difficulties that married couples, married couples with kids tend to face?
Jonathan Douglass:Well, obviously, kids. I think, yeah, one of the things one of the biggest challenges and struggles is how do we maintain us when, when we've got them, it's hard not to, as a parent, especially as my kids get busier and busier, it's hard not to kind of center your life around your children and their activities. And I mean, kids, there's so much time, so much responsibility, so much money. Fortune, suckers cost me, I'd have so much more money if I didn't have children.
Maureen:I think about that all the time.
Jonathan Douglass:But I, I think that it, prioritizing anytime my life feels unmanageable. I'll say it this way, anytime my life is unmanageable, it's because somewhere along the lines, my priorities, got out of order, priority priorities got out of whack, and I prioritize my life like this. For me, it's spiritual/self care, which some people would think is why do you put your own self care first is because if I don't put on my own mask first, then I can't put on your mask, you know, I put your own air mask on first, and then my wife, and then my kids, and then everything else really. But it's so hard if those things get out of order for a lot of times, you know, their job can become a priority, and then everything underneath, whenever those are out of order, everything in the downline suffers. So if my job comes first, you know, over top of my self care, it's like, my self care suffers, my relationship with my spouse suffers, my relationship with my kids is is not healthy. And then you know, and then eventually, I'll lose my job anyway, eventually, it'll be like, it'll impact my job anyway. But if I keep all these in the right order. And a lot of times in a household, it's very easy for your kids to become your priority over your spouse, or over your self care, because they just require a lot. They require a lot of time. But I think one of the healthiest things I can do with my kids and model to my kids is prioritizing my wife, and above them. In fact, I said to my daughter, as a little kid, I used to say to her, she say Daddy, do you love me most? I'd say no, honey, I love mommy most. And you're number two. And she I would say she's a Oh, and I'd say yeah, but someday I hope that you find someone who makes you, who makes you their number one. And they love you like that. And I just want to show that to my daughters, you know?
Maureen:Yeah, it's so hard. It's so hard. Because I could tell you right now my kids are priority number one and my house, I have a one year old and a three year old. So but as they get a little bit more independent, it is easier to get back into prioritizing other things. And I'm sure everyone can identify with this. Now COVID has thrown everything out of whack and you don't get to do the normal things that you've done before. So that adds a layer to everything. As far as like even if you trying to prioritize like going out on a date with your spouse. It's it's hard right now. So it's good. I know that I have a place to work towards putting it in that level and it does it. It makes sense. Absolutely. Especially the self care and your spirituality. If you are not at the place where you should be it's hard to be at the place for other people to something that a lot of couples might deal with is what if, as a parent you your parenting style towards your children is is different than your spouse and I'm sure we've all been raised differently and have different communication styles from where what we grew up with and, and all of that and what happens when that causes friction like what, what should parents spouses do in those situations?
Jonathan Douglass:Interesting. This question has come up a lot lately. So what I think is that the differences are important. It's important for us to embrace those differences in each other. If there were two of me, and we always just agreed on everything, there wouldn't be need for two of me. Yeah, I need my wife's differences. I mean, we were opposites and everything, finances, and that used to be this huge struggle. And it would be like, as we pushed against each other and be like, No, the way that I am is the right way to be. And the way that you are is the wrong way to be in and she'd go no, that you're wrong. And I'm right, and then we just like, which is pulling a constant pulling against each other. And until I, err, we made the decision to go, I need some of what you have, in every facet of our relationship, I need some of what you have, maybe what you have isn't 100%, right, but I need, I need some of there's some gold in what you have, and I need to move towards that I need your gold, and you need my gold. And when we combine those, then we come up with something truly beautiful. And that middle ground is, you know, maybe the - They're over here with discipline, so they're all justice, and I'm over here with all grace, you know, um, I don't you know, maybe that's the case. And, you know, my wife wants no screen time. And I want unlimited screen time, you know, and it's this battle occurs, you know, where I'm like, good dad, and she's bad mom, and, you know, is in this that can feel really bad. And what I'm aware of, even behind this question is that can feel really bad. But again, when I learned to embrace the hard things, and again, I think embracing the hard things for me starts with this sentence. This feels bad, but it's actually good. So what's, what's the good in this? There's good, there's gold in this, let me move towards her. What's the truth? The truth is, we need screentime. With boundaries, you know, we need financial responsibility. We need we've went to when that changed in our relationship, in our mindset and saying, We both want to come in. And a lot of times, it just takes one spouse, by the way. So somebody's saying, Well, my husband or my wife, they won't move at all. A lot of times one person being willing to kind of turn around and go, I'm going to move this direction. The other person turns around and moves this direction as well. You know, in the beginning, my wife would be like, Oh, what did you spend at wah wah, you spent $5 at Wawa, you know? And now she doesn't care. Now, she doesn't look at all and I'll be like, what did you spend at Kohl's? I see Kohl's, right?
Maureen:Yeah, one of the things that my husband and I, speaking of COVID, again, we came from two different places on what our risk allowance was, like what we felt comfortable with risk wise, I nothing, no risk, I don't want any red. So that's where I came from. I mean, I was pregnant with a newborn for much of this situation. And one of the things that like we had like an aha moment, at one point when I, you know, this was after countless disagreements on it, told him that I, I understand that I am more cautious, but I'm trying to work towards getting to a place where you're happy to in what we do. And we're reaching that balance. And I don't think that he realized that I was trying to work towards being closer to him, and how he feels because he always just felt like he's just giving in, we're just gonna be safe, safe, safe, safe, safe. But I was always working towards getting to be a little bit more like everything's okay. We will be okay. And I think when I explained that to him, he was like, Oh, you are, I didn't realize you were like trying to, to come to an agreement with me. So that was one learning thing that we had after two years of getting to this, like, you know, getting through one big area where we totally opposite ends of the spectrum on on what we how we come about a big stressful situations. So that was that was nice.
Jonathan Douglass:Yeah, and I think so the other thing is, what I hear and what you just said, so many couples. I think men and women are wired differently. I think men are kind of wired with this primary need for significance even from the beginning you think about ancient man, you know, go out hunt, kill, conquer, and ancient women is like birth nurture. Secure so their higher menace. Men are hardwired with this primary need for significance. Whereas women are hardwired with a primary need for security. That doesn't mean women men don't need security and women don't need significance. They do. but these primary drives, I think are different. And so the more I was like, Let's chase significance recklessly, she would feel unsafe in that. And then she would and then it was like, you're always telling me no, you're, why are you always stopping me from doing anything fun or risky or adventurous or conquering, I need to be significant. And, you know, when I came back, again, the more I've learned to like, I want to be safe, and I, I'm going to be safe for you. And I want you to feel safe, the more she has become like the adventurous, adventurous, risk taker when she feels safe, she wants to take risks.
Maureen:Yeah, I agree. I'm not not a risk taker. But like, I always think about what the risks are. So that makes, that makes a lot of sense there. So as parents, our kids are obviously, you know, one of the most one of the most important things to us, but so is like you mentioned our relationship with our partner. So if we feel like things are out of balance, or we're just looking to make sure that our priorities are strengthened with our partner, what are some of the ways that we can take to, to maybe take a step back from our identity as parents and take time to be a couple, again?
Jonathan Douglass:Some ways that we can do that?
Maureen:Yeah, walk it, what can we do? Like, I know that my priorities are, for example, my kids are my priority, but I want to re organize that and make sure that my husband remains a top priority for me. So what are some of the things that we can do?
Jonathan Douglass:Yeah, so again, I think any of these things, just like, you know, I can want to be in shape. And I can think about working out and being in shape. And I can wish I was, and I can, you know, think about it, I can even read a whole lot of fitness magazines, and, you know, look at all that stuff. But until I come up with a plan, and implement that plan of action, nothing's gonna change. And so I think part of that is cutting out an intentional section of time, and making that happen, despite all of the various obstacles to that happening, and then not compromising on that. Because again, it just like working out when I stopped working, it's so easy. It's so easy for me to go, I don't feel like going to the gym today. And that routine is done, that routines over. And so I really want to put these things in place these habits and these patterns and these routines and not let them get out of my life.
Maureen:Mm hmm. Yeah, definitely. So why is it important to date your spouse, not just prioritize them, but date them do special things?
Jonathan Douglass:I think we should always be dating our spouse, if we want to continue, even in little ways, I don't care. If you have a newborn and say, Well, I I can't date my spouse, we can we can date our spouse, we can we, you know, my wife and I used to have dates at the laundry mat and college and we would sit on top of the washers and dryers and play cards for a couple hours. That was a date. You know, some of the best dates I remember, cost nothing. And we didn't go anywhere. But they were great dates, and they were a great times of building intimacy. So creating intentional moments of connection is the important part of that. And it doesn't have to look like what a traditional day is. But the bottom line is intimacy requires intentionality. It doesn't happen by accident. Right?
Maureen:Definitely. I mean, that takes some of the pressure off when you don't it doesn't have to be this like grand gesture, but it just has to be intentional. Definitely.
Jonathan Douglass:I think just sitting there and cutting out 30 minutes to actually connect, to actually listen to be seen to be heard is so it's hard. And and I get it. People say to me, that's so hard, you know, I'm tired. I say, you know, I listened to people all day long for a job. I know, I don't have a whole lot of that holding space energy left in my body when I come home. But my wife's a priority over everybody else. And so if and not only that, when my wife is when I am doing that, and that way for my wife in our relationship is thriving, then I'm thriving. So from a purely selfish standpoint. It's it's worth the investment for me.
Maureen:Yeah, absolutely. So well, so we'll see how you feel about this next question as the husband in this situation. I will. This is coming from a mom's perspective here so many moms. I'm sure some people that have come to see you in your practice. Talk about the feeling have been touched out. At the end of the day, it's kind of just what you talked about, you know, you're, you're exhausted by the end of the day, you're, you're done, you're emotionally you're drained. It makes it so hard to switch from parent, professional mom, dad to spouse, when you're done for the day. So how do we, how do we fix this? How do how do we do that and push through and, and make it so it's, it's part of what we do.
Jonathan Douglass:So by I hear you, and what you're saying is I don't want to be touched at the end of the day.
Maureen:I don't ant to be like, if you are just exhausted, and you need to just be like on the couch, watching TV mode, and you can't you don't feel like you have anything left to give, you're not ready to connect, you're not here to do anything else, but just have some time to zone out and then go to bed. And you know what, like, a lot of people that you're in that survival, survival mode, part of parenting, and it's, it's, it's often for people in a certain stage in their lives. And you know, like, how do we get out of that?
Jonathan Douglass:Yeah. And I think the bottom line is, that's just a reality for a lot of us is included, where we come home, and we just got nothing left at the end of the day. And we just want to check out and get an hour to a show or mindless scrolling before we fall, you know, exhaustively fall asleep to get up and do it the next day. I definitely get that. The trouble is when that pattern occurs and and, that pattern is so easy to become habitual, and maintain. So if I don't intentionally, that's why it's important for me to intentionally create the moments where I'm not doing that. Even if I am allowing myself to do that, you know, a lot of the time. And I guess the other question I would ask to that is, does that really fill that need? Does that really constitute rest? You know, I can say, I'm the worst. I think my wife's gonna get on here and tell you guys, don't listen to him. He does that, you know, but I can be the I can be the worst with that. But what I find in my own life is I don't feel more rested, or refreshed. When I check out and just scroll mindlessly, I actually feel more rested and refreshed when I connect because what I'm desiring is connection. And so connecting to my spouse, or even just laying there and being present with her is more filling more resting than what my mind tells me is gonna fill me up and rest me, which is to check out.
Maureen:Mm hmm. Yeah, it's hard. But important, obviously. Jon, this has been so helpful. And I'm sure our audience agrees with that. And now I'd like to actually invite Annie to join us to continue the conversation with you. Hello, Annie.
Annie:Hi, everyone. I'm really excited to be here and join this podcast with my husband.
Maureen:Thank you so much for joining us. You know, it's it's so nice to hear the more personal side of these conversations. And I love hearing from Jon's perspective to knowing that I also work with you so it's nice, but um, how long have the two of you been together?
Annie:We just celebrated our 20 year anniversary. So yeah, 20 years. 20 years together.
Maureen:20 years married? Married? Oh, my married.
Annie:Yeah. And then I think we dated for four years before that. Yeah.
Maureen:Wow.
Jonathan Douglass:We did date for four years before that. After I chased her for two months solid while she rejected me.
Maureen:As it should be.
Jonathan Douglass:I was persistent.
Maureen:There. Yeah. So Annie, here's the real question. What's it like being married to a marriage counselor?
Annie:Oh, boy. Well, first of all, he wasn't a marriage counselor when we first got together to say that, um, I mean, it's, it's really interesting because, um, you know, I, and I do I do like that he is a therapist and a marriage counselor because I feel like, you know, I kind of have my own built in therapist, you know, living with me. So, in one sense, you know, being able to kind of have this expert person who I could really talk to about some deep issues, not just as, you know, a, you know, life partner, but also from that professional perspective, it's really nice to kind of have have around. But on the other side, I think the reality is, you know that I don't always want to have a counselor, as a combination as a husband. So there are times when I do get annoyed and frustrated, because sometimes all I want to do is, you know, is bent and have a listening ear, I don't really want someone to help me fix the problem, I just want to have a pity party, you know?
Jonathan Douglass:Oh wow.
Annie:And, you know, so it's, it's kind of one of those things where I do, I think that, you know, I do appreciate having him around as a therapist, from a therapists perspective and getting that feedback for sure. You know, but we have a very normal marriage and relationship, you know, not perfect, because no marriage is.
Jonathan Douglass:So I think what she was saying there is she wants me to cosign her negative thinking sometimes, and I just won't do it.
Maureen:See I coudln't even put it in that expression. And that's, I just want to my husband tries to fix the situation. When I'm venting. I just want to complain, but, yeah, now we know what it's labeled as. Thank you, Jon. So I thought it would be fun, maybe, if we could quiz the two of you and see if we can learn a little bit more from your answers. So question one, which one of you is more of the worrier in your family?
Annie:This is easy. I definitely am the worrier. We are we're polar opposite in that area where I worry about things that might happen 30 years from now, you know?
Jonathan Douglass:Oh, yeah. She has a black belt and worrying. Yeah.
Maureen:I do as well. But that's the good thing. I feel like because then you guys balance each other out. That's what my husband and I at least say, the non worrier and it's like, how do you even think about that? I'm like, I don't know. That's just where my brain?
Annie:Yes, exactly. That's exactly it.
Maureen:Yeah. Okay, so which one of you does the cooking and the cleaning? More?
Annie:I'm curious to see what Jon says.
Jonathan Douglass:Oh, yeah, definitely her. I will do it if coerced.
Annie:True, he has, we have a good over the years, we've developed a decent routine. I think, when the our kids were very, very small. We were just in survival mode. And we just, you know, we tried our best, but we didn't, we didn't have a good rhythm. And I think if I think back to just kind of how we do things now, you know, we, we kind of have this routine, you know, on Tuesdays and Thursdays, you know, Jon typically takes care of dinner, the other days of the week, you know, we we order order in at least once a week, and then I try to cook the other other two days. So we kind of have this good rhythm in place. So. So we're in a good place with that. But it took us a very long time, I feel like for us to get to a good place where we felt like we were, you know, we weren't just in survival mode with with that kind of stuff. And then in terms of cleaning, I would have to say that the great thing about having little kids that are a little bit older now is that they get to help out with cleaning. So no longer are the cleaning just on John and I. So yeah,
Maureen:We can all aspire to that. Yeah, that's good. So I guess we'll start Jon, if you'd like to start with this one. What is Annie's love language?
Jonathan Douglass:Hmm Yes, I I think I got lucky with my spouse's love language and that hers is physical touch is one of them. And I think acts of service is probably one of the others. Does that sound right?
Maureen:Annie?
Annie:Sounds that sound right. I like I like having
Jonathan Douglass:Her her love languages dove chocolate.
Annie:That's definitely my love language. Um, I think quality time is something I also really appreciate. Um, and then I think for Jon, yours is like words of affirmation, right? He likes to be like, he likes it when I, I, I make more encouraging, less critical. But it's, you know, it doesn't come easy for me sometimes, or a lot of times it doesn't come up. So it's something I have to be really intentional about, and really try to work on.
Maureen:So what is your both of your favorite ideas for a date night?
Annie:Um, I think date night is just a luxury. It's like such a great luxury to have. So for us, it's just I think, anytime where we can just go out of the house and not have to take the kids with us. Like, to me, I think, you know, my standards have become really low in that department, like any, like, we can go anywhere and be alone. And it's like an amazing date night.
Maureen:You know, I know, I wouldn't call that low standards, I would say that you actually are realizing what is the valuable part of being out, it's not about spending all this money or being at the fancist places.
Annie:Yeah, yeah.
Maureen:I like that. What about you, John,
Jonathan Douglass:I like date nights where we drive so a lot of times we will drive about an hour away to Cherry Hill area, which has different restaurants. And so I value the time in the car driving to and from places like that. One of my favorite dates was Axe Throwing, I enjoyed it Axe Throwing, she did great. I thought that was a super cool date. You know, I anything where we are just hanging out together, enjoying our time together. So it can really be anything but yeah, I mean, we last summer, we did a lot a couple times, at least, where we would just go to the beach and get, you know, some drive through food or not drive through, but food from the boardwalk and go sit on the beach and just hang out. And anytime that we're able to escape from the day to day world, and the chaos around it and just sit and be in the moment together and enjoy our time together is super valuable to me, it doesn't really matter what we're doing.
Annie:Yeah. And one one date night that that comes to mind for me is is kind of a tip for all the parents out there who still have little kids, and it's really not easy to get Babysitting is you can have a date night at home. I know that there's been many times when Jon and I would make dinner for our kids have them eat first, and then we would send them downstairs or somewhere else, you know, to watch a movie or something. And then we would make a you know, have a special dinner that something that you know, just he and I would like and we would just have a dinner day at our own house. Um, and that stands out to me because, you know, you don't have to, sometimes you don't, you know, you kind of put date night off. Because there's an excuse of like, well, we don't have a babysitter and you know, we have money. Yeah, money. We don't want it. We don't have extra money to spend this month. Um, so. So something like that is really simple. And, you know, I would highly recommend it because I just remember we had really great conversations and it was unexpectedly very peaceful. And just, you know, being able to do that.
Jonathan Douglass:I think it's, I think it's less about what we're doing and more about creating intentional space. And we can create that intentional space anywhere. Definitely.
Maureen:So, Jon, or what do you appreciate most about Annie?
Jonathan Douglass:Should have read these questions first. Nothing like being put on the spot. No, I like this this is okay. I like this question. You know, there's so much that I appreciate about my wife I, again, I used to resent all the things that were different about us. And now I've really learned to appreciate all the things that were different about us. And one of the things I talk about with couples all the time is that each personality has what I call gold and shadow which gold represents the strength shadow represents the weakness, but the shadow is just the shadow of the gold. So every personality trait has a strength and a weakness. So, for instance, you know, so many times I'm sitting with couples, and the wife will say, I'll ask them, well, what drew you to your spouse? And she'll say, Well, he was a really hard worker, and I say, what drives you nuts about him, he works too much and has no balance in priorities in his life. I see. Yeah, those are the same. They're literally the same thing. That's the downside of his strength, you know. And so I think, for me, I'll oftentimes in what happens in the beginning of the relationship is i all I can see is the gold. And then I get into the relationship, and all I can see is the shadow. And so for me, it's an intentional focus on her gold on a regular basis. So what I love about my spouse is how driven and hardworking and I mean, she's really, she's really, really hard on herself to constantly be thinking forward and into the future, and what are we going to do, and that shows up in, you know, she's a planner, she's a preparer. She's, she's one of the most prepared, people I know, you know, again, so we get, we go to leave the house. And it's like, we're always late leaving the house, and we're always late getting somewhere. But that's because she has to have everything, including the kitchen sink, when we leave the house. And I would, and I would get so frustrated by that. I usually like what that can we just leave, we got money, we'll buy it on the way if we forgot it, you know. And what I realized now is like, I've I leave the house, and I got nothing, you know, they don't have coats, they don't have water bottles, they got nothing, you know, we get in the car, you got these little kids, and they're like crying. And, you know, I didn't have my I didn't have my spouse there, I wasn't prepared to know, she's prepared. And I am often very unprepared. And I just value her preparedness and forward thinking and hardworking, driven attributes. There you go.
Maureen:Annie, what about you?
Annie:Well, thank you, Jon, that was very nice. I think I love the fact that, you know, Jon, is very calm and easygoing and laid back and really helps me balance out just my, you know, my anxious self sometimes because I'm that worrier, I'm, I'm the over prepare, you know, I think about every little detail, and I have plan A and plan B, and plan C, and my mind is very crowded with all these, you know, all these different complicated routes to take, and, you know, Jon's ability to just take and enjoy every moment and enjoy the day and not, you know, not get caught up in the worries of the future, like that kind of attitude, and, um, you know, vibe that he brings to the relationship. I think that's what I appreciate most.
Maureen:So we're wrapping up here, but I want to ask one last question. How can you share some advice about what has helped your relationship stay so strong after three kids? Annie, you want to take that one?
Annie:Well, it hasn't been easy. But I think it's just our commitment to each other. And, you know, we've we've learned and figured out how to just like each other and be friends be best friends. And that that really helps a lot when you like the person that you're married to. You know, because there is I think there is definitely a difference between, you know, you know, being, I mean, obviously, love is a big part of it, but you also have to, like genuinely like the person as a human being and, you know, enjoy spending time with them. And, and that's all about just building that friendship component to the relationship. And I think we've been able to do that over the years, like we really are, you know, best friends. So I think that really helps. I think that, that helps helps us make it through all the hard times and all the challenges that we have to deal with when it comes to all the parenting stuff and just the chaos that all that brains. So.
Jonathan Douglass:Good answer Annie.
Maureen:So Jon, what about you? What has helped your relationships stay so strong after three kids?
Jonathan Douglass:Yeah, I think that learning to you know, on top of what she just said, I would totally echo when she just said and learning how to work with each other and wanting to work with each other and meet each other on common ground. And find that common ground. And value again, I think so much the time I always ask myself this question. In relationship, I focus on my, in, in my human nature, I focus on my needs and what I want. So like or what I need, I have these needs, I want to be heard, I want to be seen, I want to be respected, I want to be, you know, I want to feel worthy. And I think one of the biggest shifts that has helped us to maintain these things is when we start going, I say it this way, when I look at it, and I go, I used to go, yeah, me but you and said, Now I go, Yeah, you but me and say like, if I really want those things, she wants us things to how am I going to give them to her first. So try to give her whatever it is that I would want in the relationship. So if I want to be respected, or if I want to be appreciated, I think appreciated is one of the biggest ones I know, I really want to be appreciated in the relationship. So I want the things that I'm doing to be seen, recognized and appreciated. So if I want that, then I'm pretty sure she wants that. And so I try to do that for her first, which is to look at the things he look around and find reasons to appreciate her efforts today. And I think that us making both of us, I think have made that shift to where we're like, you know, even sometimes even get, like kind of silly with it. Like, oh, I noticed you did the dishes. And you know, like, that's not that that's silly. That's a big thing. But just finding reasons to get like, constantly praise and appreciate what the other person's doing has really shifted.
Annie:Yeah, even like, I know, we do this a lot like at our house, Jon, but you know, like, if you pick up the trash, like that's something I actually really appreciate it when you take out the trash and recycling. But it's every obviously it's like every other day or whatever, but like but things like that it's something small, but to show that small type of appreciation and then I love it when he thanks me that I did the dishes because it took me a lot of effort to to do the dishes, you know, so it's just even just that small. Small words of, you know, thankfulness and, you know, appreciation I think goes a long way.
Maureen:Great. Here's what's new at Mom's Meet and KIWI magazine. Make sure you register for Wow Summit '22 Virtual. Join us from March 29 through March 31 2022 to attend educational workshops, learn from compelling speakers, network with like minded moms, and discover new products and our virtual exhibit hall. Plus, you'll have a chance to win amazing prizes such as an Apple iPad, Ninja foodie and more. KIWI magazine's 2022 Spring issue is out now. Featuring fresh recipes, family mental health advice, crafts, and more, there are so many amazing articles to check out this season. Plus dive deeper into what you need to know about climate change and its impacts on your kids health. Who says you can't satisfy your chocolate cravings and have a healthy snack to JOJO's chocolate is on a mission to help Americans consume less sugar and to challenge the way people view chocolate. JOJO's original chocolate bites are crafted with healthy clean ingredients that will leave you happy and satisfied, including 70% dark chocolate, pistachios, almonds, cranberries, and plant based protein. Each bite contains just 2.5 grams of sugar, creating the perfect combo of chocolate that is dark, rich, smooth, crunchy and delicious. Their chocolate is also vegan keto and paleo friendly, as well as free of gluten soy and lactose JOJO's is proof that you can eat your daily dose of chocolate and not feel guilty about it. Thank you so much for joining us, Jon and Annie thank you so much for hopping on at the end and chatting with us. It was so nice to hear about your relationship and how you guys work together as a team. And thank you everyone for listening today and make sure you hit the subscribe button so you don't miss the latest podcast episodes. And thanks for conquering healthy living at all ages and stages of life with us.