Race, gender, and consent are important to discuss with our kids but they can be hard conversations to navigate as parents. We’re joined by Dr. Melissa Robinson-Brown, a licensed clinical psychologist, to talk about the importance of teaching our kids these topics. We dig deeper into intersectionality, how we as parents can address tough topics with our kids, parenting from a place of curiosity, and so much more.
Race, gender, and consent are important to discuss with our kids but they can be hard conversations to navigate as parents. We’re joined by Dr. Melissa Robinson-Brown, a licensed clinical psychologist, to talk about the importance of teaching our kids these topics. We dig deeper into intersectionality, how we as parents can address tough topics with our kids, parenting from a place of curiosity, and so much more.
Welcome to Raising Healthy Families with Moms Meet and KIWI. We're giving you the tools to enjoy the beauty and chaos of life with little ones in the healthiest way possible.
Annie:Hi, everyone. I'm Annie Douglas, the chief mom ambassador at Moms Meet. Today we are joined by Dr. Melissa Robinson Brown, a licensed clinical psychologist to talk about the importance of teaching our kids about race, gender and consent. We're digging deeper into intersectionality how we as parents can address tough topics with our kids, and so much more. This episode is brought to you in part by Blue Lizard. With warmer months ahead of us, it's time to take action in finding sunscreen that protects your family from the sun's harmful rays. Blue Lizard Kids Mineral Based Sunscreen was designed with dermatologist to provide head to toe sun protection. The SPF 50+ formula starts with zinc oxide to provide broad spectrum protection from 98% of the sun's burning rays. The kids formula contains no skin irritating chemical sunscreen ingredients, no parabens, and no fragrances. So today we are joined by Dr. Melissa Robinson Brown, a licensed clinical psychologist, educator, speaker, health and wellness enthusiast, multi passionate entrepreneur and a mom of three. Thank you so much for joining us today Dr. Mel.
Dr. Mel:Thank you so much for having me on Annie, I'm so excited to have this conversation today and to be here. I'm really looking forward to it.
Annie:Yeah, same here. So obviously, race, gender and consent are very important topics to discuss with our kids. And I have three of myself. And you know, but they can be really hard conversations to have. So I'm really interested in to chat with you more about why we need to have these hard conversations, and how we can raise more accepting and loving children. So to start, can you tell us a little bit more about why you chose to become a psychologist?
Dr. Mel:It's such a big question in some ways, and small in others. So I I first became interested in psychology and just understanding the mind when I was in undergrad, and did my thesis at that time on adolescent girls in the school system. And I was just really drawn to how these girls develop their sense of identity, and how so many different aspects of their environment, their temperament, their how they've been parented really impacts who they are. And so it was from that point that I started to feel like, I have such an interest in this, like I want, I felt very strongly that I wanted these girls to feel good about themselves. And I knew how difficult it can be to go through puberty as a girl. And so I really just wanted to be in a space of helping individuals, especially young individuals be able to grow up and feel like they have a healthy sound way of thinking about navigating the world. And so psychology felt like the best route to do that, because it would then also allow me to just do it in various ways. So not just through therapy, but whether that's research or consulting or teaching. It just sort of felt like it had a lot of different ways for me to hit my goal.
Annie:Oh, that's awesome. And what a great way to kind of start your career just that that impact that you could make in these people's, you know, lives as well. Awesome. Um, so one of the things that we obviously we want to we want to cover a lot in this podcast. But one of the first things I want to ask about is, you know, just with the Black Lives Matter movement, and the anti LGBTQ+ bills in Texas and Florida making national headlines, our children are being exposed to just really hard conversations about all these topics at a really young age. So what are some ways that we could start having these conversations with our kids about the topics around race, gender and consent?
Dr. Mel:Such a good question, and I know that it became so prominent, and in so many parents, were asking these questions, especially after George Floyd's, murder. And so I think the one thing we have to realize and think about is timing. And so what I've heard a lot of parents say is, well, you know, I don't really think that we need to start talking to our kids about this until they're five or six or seven. But the reality is, is that kids start to recognize racial difference very, very early. Like as young as three months old, they've done studies that show that kids are starting to make preferential choices based on skin color, right? So we can't wait till five or six. Because already as an infant, they're starting to develop what we call schemas about the world. And so really starting with the conversation, it doesn't even always have to immediately be a conversation, but absolutely exposure. Think about what are the dolls that you're buying. And this is across the board in terms of different racial identities, different gender, and sex, sexual identity, if they've got on the clothing that they're wearing, it just needs to be variable. So your kids are being exposed to so many different things, the books you have on your shelves, there should be all sorts of different characters that are in books, the conversations you're having, like, I don't know about you, right, but my kids pick up on everything I say. Right. And we have to be mindful about how we're having conversations in front of them, and how inclusive we are being when we're talking about things like race and gender, and identity. And so that's, that's really the beginning of the conversation. It's about just what you're exposing them to, and then being explicit in terms that kids can understand. Right? We - colorblindness is the worst thing you can do. And it's so harmful because it's erasure. When I say that I have a parent that says but we we believe in being colorblind, we don't see race, everybody's the same. Right? And, and the reality is, you're erasing a piece of somebody's identity, when you say you don't see their color, you don't see their gender, right. So just saying, hey, this person has brown skin, and you have peach skin or white skin. And that's okay. Because you're both humans. And that makes you amazing. That difference makes you amazing, to something as simple as that is already giving your child messaging that is reflective of how we want this world to be.
Annie:Hmm, yeah, that is such good advice. I mean, I don't know why this was. Well, I do know why this was on my mind, because I knew I was coming into this conversation today. And this morning, my six year old was playing with all these dolls. And I was looking at the lineup of the dolls. And it dawned on me, I'm like, wait a minute, nine out of these 10 dolls are white. And the one doll is hispanic. But I couldn't tell. And I was like, you know, we needed a more diverse collection of dolls in this house. Yeah, I remember going to talking to my husband before he went to work this morning. I'm like, Did you realize that? Um, so I, you know, I come from - my mom is Korean. So I come from a mixed background. And obviously, in our household, we talk about the the Asian background and the Caucasian background. But then to go as far out, you know, far as incorporating all the different, you know, nationalities and backgrounds into our lifestyle. That's, you know, that's something that that happens when you make it intentional, I think. And so I love what you're, you know, what you're saying about having those conversations early. And it was surprising when you said, a three month old infant. I mean, that's shocking.
Dr. Mel:It happens so much earlier than we think. And they just noticed the differences, right? But then, depending on what we're doing as parents and who we're exposing them to, that's when they are starting to develop an understanding of, well, what's the world look like, right? And you hear these stories all the time about how kids go to preschool or they go to kindergarten, and they start to encounter for the first time kids that look different than them, and then say things that are offensive, not because they are trying to be offensive, but because as a parent, we've never exposed them to kids or people that look different. I mean, even think about your circles. Annie, I can't tell you the number of times that I've gone to a party, and my husband and I have been the only black couple there. Right. And so it's like, if we weren't here, would this be an entirely white event? And if that's the case, I need these people to evaluate who's in your circle.
Annie:Right, right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so, I want to kind of move on to another question here. So what is intersectionality? And how does it relate to race and gender?
Dr. Mel:Yeah, such a good question. Right? So intersectionality is essentially the idea that there are different pieces of people's identities, that, that are usually ones that are marginalized in some way, and how those things come together to create various experiences for someone. Right? So you and I are both women. Right? But our, our race, right? Shifts what our experience will be, right? My experience as a black woman is different than your experience as a Korean and white woman, I just made the assumption that your other parent's white, okay. So that that piece of intersectionality, we have to understand people's identities, right. And usually it has to get has to do with marginalized identities in some way. And how those essentially create layers that change our experiences. So when we think about it, in the context of race, and gender, a white woman, right, is going to have a much different experience than a black woman, Korean and white woman, a Hispanic woman, right? Or imagine a queer black woman. Now we've got three identities that are typically marginalized, and that's going to impact the experiences that people are having, or having.
Annie:That's so true. And gosh, this is this is kind of, it's really complicated. stuff, you know, I mean, even as an adult to be able to navigate it. And I think, as a mom, I do start when I start talking about this topic, I do find myself a bit overwhelmed. On, you know, on a lot of this, because, first of all, I feel like, well, I don't really know enough, maybe, you know, conversation, maybe I'm not an expert at this, or maybe I'll say the wrong thing. You know, maybe I'll say it the wrong way, because I haven't been educated on it. So do you have any tools or advice on how mom's can be more empowered to teach her kids these topics?
Dr. Mel:Yeah. So I think one of the things that trips people up is what you just said, right? Like this idea of like, I'm going to say it wrong, or I'm going to, I'm going to stumble over my words even. And I think we have to be okay, with messing up. Right? I think we have to be okay with saying the wrong thing. And recognizing, oh, Mommy could have said that differently. So I'm going to try again, because we're modeling two things there for our children. We're modeling vulnerability, and that it's okay to make a mistake. And we're modeling how to have a conversation. And so that is really important in terms of just having those conversations, I would then say, start from a place start from your, your identity, instead of trying to explain everybody else's identity and all the different layers that are happening, right for, for example, when you're talking to me about you are Korean and white, right? Like, talk to your children about that. So Mommy has different identities, Mommy is Korean. And you know, you know if they they're in contact with their grandparents, or their aunts, uncles, whatever, and what that means and talk about the foods, but mommy is also white and talk about that piece of your background. And those things come together to create who I am. And then you can talk to them about their identity, right? Because they've got different layers to their identity to if they identify as a boy or girl or non binary in terms of their racial background, the fact that they're being raised by did I hear you say that your husband...?
Annie:My husband is also white, yes.
Dr. Mel:So again, I don't want to make assumptions. The fact that they're being raised in a two parent household that they're being raised in a heterosexual household, we are very open with our kids and our friends. We have same sex couples that are raising kids. And they ask what so if your kids are asking questions, right? And answering those questions, right? We don't have to make it overly complicated. We can really start from a place of where we are, and then maybe spend and start talking about their identity, and then start talking about, like, who's in their class? Who's at the playground? Right, and how identity is different for them?
Annie:Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean, I love that, you know, you talk a lot about having those open conversations and starting with what you know, obviously, is, is key but then also making sure that you're giving your kids opportunities to ask those questions openly in a safe kind of space. I think sometimes as parents, I know, like, I know, I can just be for myself, if it's something that I don't know, or I feel uncomfortable about, it's, um, you know, as default, I want to maybe avoid the issue, you know, I think a lot of people, and maybe they've grown up in households where people weren't talking openly and asking questions, which I find that a lot and obviously older generations, and, yeah, I mean, it's, I want to create that safe environment where we are taking that those moments when the kids have questions to really talk about all of the variety of unique and amazingly beautiful people there are in this. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's so important to, to create that environment. Um, so, you know, when we talk about kind of race, if we want to focus, you know, focus in on just the racial part of what we're talking about here. What does it mean to you to kind of have a anti racist child?
Dr. Mel:Mm hmm. So, another really great question. So anti racist means that there's just no tolerance or acceptance for racial ideas-, racial idea- racist ideas, right. And so there is a level of openness and acceptance of everyone. And so to raise an anti racist child means you're also raising your child with that sentiment, right. And it's not enough to just be anti racist. In a silo, right. And some of this is, it's harder, right at when our kids are very young. But I always teach my kids about, if you see something, don't just observe it, right? Say something to somebody. So even if you see your friend being mistreated, and and really, we do this on a general level, and then as they get older, we may say more about that people are mistreated because of their race, and how important it is for us to not allow those things to happen, if we see it happening. But really just teaching our kids about, you know, everybody deserves to be treated nicely, right? Nobody deserves to be mistreated. And so if you see that happening to a friend, it's okay to tell your other friend, Hey, that's not nice. And if you don't feel comfortable with that, to grab a teacher, but ultimately, we want to teach our kids that. It's about being accepting, and it's really about embracing difference. And making sure that the environment you're in, also does the same. And I know that's hard for little kids, and they need our help. Right. And so that's when we as parents, again, need to make sure our circles, their friends, their books, their toys, all of those things are representative of what our country actually looks like. As opposed to what is can sometimes be a very small piece of our country. Right.
Annie:Yeah, that is so true. That is so true. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's tough because, you know, when, when our kids, you know, are not exposed to all the differences, it can be, obviously harder for them to, to adjust to new information, or, you know, this first time I've seen, you know, someone like this, how do I react to that? Um, yeah, so I absolutely, and I, you know, love what you're saying about how the parents have to model at home. I mean, gosh, kids do pick up on so many little things. Although, I am shocked. There was one instance. Like, I think last maybe a couple years ago even, when my my youngest was very little, you know, I think sometimes kids pick up things from somewhere else, like, you know, where they got, you know, my youngest said something that was potentially not, you know, it was kind of borderline and I immediately jumped I'm like, What did you say like, I she, I mean, she got in serious trouble for saying this one thing and she had no idea what she was saying. I mean, she heard it from someone else or, you know, so it I think one of those situations where I wasn't really sure if I handled that properly in that scenario, like, reacted so harshly, but I wanted to make sure it was never said again. Yeah, that's not appropriate. And again, she had no clue what she was saying she thinks she was like three or four or something. So I don't know, if you have any advice on scenarios like that, like, what should be the appropriate response? If you truly know your child did not know what they were saying? You know?
Dr. Mel:Yeah, so, I always advise parents to parent from a place of curiosity. So before I go into that, I'm gonna rewind, your reaction was fine. We do the we do the best that we can. When things come up, and sometimes our kids will say things that throw us off guard. And our gut reaction is, oh, my God, you cannot say things like that, like, you have to stop right now. Right. So, um, and so I, I get it. And I totally understand, and you did the best you could in that moment. And I think we always have to remember that as parents as moms, like, we do the best we can. And we recognize them, maybe the next time, we want to do it differently. And that in and of itself, makes you an amazing mother. Right? Um, but parenting from a place of curiosity, is a combination of us learning how to regulate our emotion, and always coming from a place of, I want to give my kid the benefit of the doubt. I know that that's not always easy, right? Because to regulate in a moment like that, where you're activated, there doesn't feel like there's a lot of space to give a to give benefit of the doubt, right? But, but I think in situations like that, when a kid says, whatever that might be really inflammatory. We say, Okay, tell me where you heard that from? Like, where did you hear that? Because they might have heard it at school, they might have heard it on the playground, they might have heard it on the YouTube, whatever they were watching, they might have heard it from us. And we don't even realize we're saying the thing. Right. So where did you hear that? And then my second question would be, what do you think that means? So sometimes kids don't understand like, I'll give you a really funny, unrelated example, but related, you know, the song Bills, Bills, Bills by Destiny's Child. Yeah. Like, we all kind of know that. Like, that song is really like about a woman being like, if you can't show up as a partner, and like, contribute to this household, like, you got to go, right. But my kids were singing the song because they heard it. And they were just singing along. And I'm like, girls, what do you think that that's about? And my nine year old is like, bills. She doesn't really even understand, like, the real premise of the song because they're just Oh, it's a catchy, it's catchy. I'm gonna sing along. So all this to say, ask your kid, what do you think that means? Because they may not even know what it means. And then in their language, explain what it means. They they then maybe come with Oh my god. Like, that's not what I wanted to say. That's not what I meant mommy. Right. And then it's easier for them to eliminate it from their language. When we sort of like, punished without explanation. They may do it again, just not in front of you. Right? Because they're like, Oh, well, Mommy didn't like that. I said that. So like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say it, but I'm gonna say it somewhere else where Mommy won't hear. But if we kind of say, hey, actually, when you when you sing the song, I mean, the song they were singing wasn't like, the most inflammatory of things, but that songs actually about like, demanding that a partner, you know, pay your bills in order for them to be your partner. They might be like, Oh, I don't know if I like that. I don't know if I want to be that person. So that right, so those three things. Number one, where did you hear it? Number two, what do you think that means? And then number three, explaining what it means and why it's not okay to say those things or how it might be hurtful or harmful to somebody who care about or somebody another human to say that thing.
Annie:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, such good advice. I definitely in that moment, I went straight to just being angry, you know, for like, what what the heck has she been watching or doing like who's she been talking to and then just the punishment like well, she's gonna have to get in trouble, you know, but, of course, you know, she was still very little so it wasn't like it was anything major kind of trouble. But, you know, I think still even at that age, taking that time to talk through that with her and explaining to her, even if maybe, maybe she couldn't fully grasp the situation. But yeah, I mean, I think that's such good advice. I'm going to have to make sure I implement that the next time.
Dr. Mel:It's hard. It's hard, right? Our kids say things, and we are reactive we have like, but again, if we sort of live in the spirit of, we're doing the best we can in any given moment. And next time, I want to do it a little different. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Annie:Yeah. And obviously, that advice applies all across the board. Just under parenting.
Dr. Mel:Yes, exactly. Yes.
Annie:Awesome. Okay, so then I have another question about another term that I want to get your take on. So what are microaggressions? And why are these so damaging?
Dr. Mel:Mm hmm. So I love that you're asking this question, because I think the term microaggression gets thrown around and people aren't always really short of what it means, right? So it's literally like, it can be verbal, it can be behavioral, it can be something in the in the environment. But ultimately, it is a a slight, or a dig at someone, whether it's intentional, sometimes it can be unintentional. And, but it's usually hostile, like it's communicating a hostile sort of derogatory or negative attitude towards a stigmatized or marginalized group. So things like, wow, like speaking to a black person and saying, Wow, like, you said that so articulately, right? Or you're so articulate in your expression, which is a dig, because historically, many times people say that black individuals don't speak well, or they don't, you know, there's too much slang or they're difficult to understand. So to say, wow, you were so articulate in that, in that expression, or it happens with gender, right? This happens all the time in the workplace, where it's like, you know, you don't need to make more money than this person. Or we, we pay women less, because they're less available, they usually have to leave to go take care of the kids. But, you know, we're giving you that flexibility to do the thing that you need to do. But but that just means that your salary is going to be less, let's dig that's a slight at me because I'm female. Right? And an assumption, right? Um, so yes, it's, it's problematic. And we have to be careful not to do them.
Annie:Yeah. Oh, God. I mean, I feel like I've learned kind of this a little bit, a new term today, because yeah. I always thought like, there's, there's bullying, and there's aggressive, you know, behavior. And there's obviously all these other kind of extreme things that people talk about a lot. I don't hear microaggressions as much, you know, and, and, and you're right, I mean, I think even as a as an Asian American woman. I know just last week, someone said something to me that, that when I when I when we're talking about our favorite foods, this person, this person said, and a dear friend of mine, I know that she has so much love but immediately said, oh, you like kimchi? Because you're, you're Korean.
Dr. Mel:That's a microaggression.
Annie:And I kind of left the conversation thinking, huh, how come that, that didn't feel right, there was something that was kind of bugging me. And I feel like now I have a word to put against that feeling. Um, yep. And just to think about all the other, you know, people out there who deal with this micro aggression daily, and constantly, I mean, it's like, you know, I empathize with that, like, I totally recognize that, um, and it's such a subtle thing, but thank you for putting explaining that so beautifully.
Dr. Mel:Yeah, Annie, I feel like there's a thing you said that everybody should take away from this, which is how you felt after the person said the thing. Right, that you don't like, something about that didn't feel good. Something about that didn't sit well. Right. And it's that piece, right. Because people, you know, and I've been there. We've all been there. As women, we've all been there as marginalized women like merge, that intersectionality and are pieces of identity in some way, where somebody has said something or done something in your life. That didn't feel right. And it may be our friends that are doing it. Our bosses, co workers, family even. And we are just like it just I don't know, like it's bothering me. And we sort of just push it away. But that is a telltale sign that somebody has micro aggressed against you because you feel that. I mean, it was such a small thing they said, but man, it bothered me.
Annie:Right, right. And I guess I'm still unsure how to deal with that. Should I approach this person about it? Because it seems like Gosh, compared to all this other stuff that's happening in the world? Yeah. Like, maybe I should just deal with it and just move on? And how do I model that to my children and make sure that they're not the person who is, you know, offending someone? Or how to deal with it as, you know, on a healthy in a healthy way, when they get dealt this, this behavior? Do you - Do you have any, like, personal kind of examples of how you've handled something like that in the past?
Dr. Mel:Yeah, so such a great question to sort of figure out how to deal with it. I have been in the space where I haven't known how to deal with it, because it can feel uncomfortable to, um, it can be uncomfortable to confront someone about words that they've said. And what feels even worse is the dismissiveness of it. Right? So if I go to you, and I say, if you go to your friend, and you say, you know, when you you said, Of course you like kimchi, because you're Korean or because you're Asian, I just want to let you know that, like, that's an assumption you made about me that it didn't feel good, right? This is your friend, it's a dear friend. And so to say that to them feels really hard. And right. When we can lean into discomfort, we change, everyone changes. And so you have to also decide for yourself, when is it worth it? There are some situations where it isn't, right. Um, you know, if somebody says something on the street, you'll never see or interact with that person. Again, you could say something to them, or you could not worry, but somebody who's your friend, you're going to have to interact with at various times, and may say something again, it might be worth it to say hey a few minutes, like, I just want to bring up a thing that happened. And I don't even know if you realize you, she may not even realize, yeah, what she said, felt didn't feel good. And I am definitely not for making people of color do all the work. Right? I am very much against that. And at the same time, it's an opportunity where hopefully your friend can receive the feedback. And and, and let them know. Right, let them know, and they can make changes. In terms of doing that for our kids. I think it's really about.. another thing. So you have you said you have three, right? And so we can even have our kids model it with each other. Right? Like, making sure that when one so my sometimes my kids will tease each other. And I know this is not the same as a microaggression. But sometimes my girls will tease each other. And the and one will say stop, like I don't, I don't like it. And the other one will keep going. And I'll say, hey, right, like your sister said, Stop. And this is about consent to right. Your sister said stop. I need you to honor that. She said stop. Right. And if you keep going after she says that, it's important to apologize for pushing past her boundary. And so it's that these little arguments that they're having, that maybe don't necessarily have to do with a particular microaggression is a place where you can start to teach them skills that they can use elsewhere.
Annie:Right? Yeah, I need to write down what you just said about how you talk to your kids because it happens all the time in our household the one kid asks, you know the other kid to stop the other kid doesn't stop it turns into just this you know blowout fight or someone crying. Yeah, I mean, that's so important. Like when it comes to consent and you know, that whole arena thing and was in just to kind of keep going on that topic. What are some other key things in your opinion that we need to teach our kids when it comes to consent?
Dr. Mel:Mm hmm. So definitely that idea of, it's okay for you to say no. And it's okay for you to say stop. Right. And so this comes up so often, this is the one I hear all the time. Come give your uncle a hug, come on, and then a mom or dad or two moms are like, Go hug your uncle, go hug your grandfather. You have to give them that. And, and when we're taking away body autonomy, right? If your kid is, you know, sometimes kids just don't feel comfortable. And you know what, we don't know why they don't feel comfortable. But we need to honor that they don't. Because that's teaching our kids that like if something doesn't feel good for me, I don't have to do it. The minute we force our kids to hug their grandparents, their, their aunts, their uncles or cousins, we're we're taking away body autonomy. And we're teaching them that even if you don't feel good, if it's grandma, if it's grandpa, if it's aunt its uncle, they have to do it. That is a breeding ground for sexual abuse.
Annie:Oh, wow. I feel so guilty right now, because I force my kids to hug their cousins.
Dr. Mel:I don't want to make you feel guilty.
Annie:But it actually makes so much sense. I mean, I never thought about it that way. Okay, I'm gonna have to start changing how I'm doing things.
Dr. Mel:Yeah, and it's okay. Right? It's okay. But it's just and it's also telling our parents that you know what she does, right now, maybe later. And our parents are gonna be like, What do you mean, you don't want to give me a hug. But like, it's, it's not always about the adult. Adults always make it about us, right? We're not child centered. Sometimes we want to be adult centered, right? We want to stand up and be big and looming, and say, come here and give me a hug. But you know what, maybe you just need to like, get down to their level. And maybe it's just a high five or a fist bump. Maybe that's okay, too. Yeah. Right.
Annie:That's awesome. I want to ask you one more final question before we wrap things up. So do you have any advice for parents with LGBTQ+ children, about how we can champion them and support them and make them feel safe in our home and our families?
Dr. Mel:Mm hmm. So the first and foremost is acceptance. Right. So two parts. So I shouldn't say that's the first and foremost, acceptance is important. But exposure is even more important. The way we raise, we are delivering messaging to our kids, from the time they come out of the womb, what we say, who we're around, the jokes we make, the people we comment on on TV, or out in the world, they're picking up every single time. And so the minute you use a slur, or make a comment about the same sex couple that you saw on TV, or make a facial expression when somebody starts talking about transgender health, your kid is developing a belief that this is not okay. And then they don't bring it to you. They're scared. Right? Because Oh, my gosh, my mom, my dad, or my moms, or my dads are going to make those faces at me. And I don't want that I don't want them to be grossed out by me. I don't want them to make a comment like that about me. So they don't, right. But imagine if you're always talking about it. Imagine if it's part of your books. It's part of the TV watch. It's part of the discussions you had, right, my kids, I have a really close colleague who her child is transgender. And my kids knew this little girl when he was identifying as a boy. And now that he has transitioned to a girl, and we've had the discussion, we talk about what that means. We talk about the fact that he's in a - she, I apologize. She's an amazing kid, right? And our friends that have that are same sex couples and have kids, we'll talk about how amazing it is how their love is amazing. And we say to them, when we even the questions we ask right as a 12 year old, we might start asking our kids, is there anybody you like at school? Are you interested in anybody? Notice I'm saying anybody because the minute I say are you interested in a boy? Or do you like any boys at school? There's an assumption there that the only people that it's okay to like our boys. Yeah, because you're a girl, right? But if I say is there anybody like at school, that leaves the window open to you saying whoever it is that you like, or I don't like anyone, right? So we, we have to watch our language, we have to watch our, who we're exposing, again, who we're bringing into our circles. Because that's how you support your child to feel safe in your home. And then when they do say to you, Hey, I've got a boyfriend, or if I'm, if they're a boy, I've got a boyfriend, or I'm interested in this, this girl, or, Hey, I'm not feeling like, my sexual identity matches my gender identity. When they bring that to you, curiosity, from a place of curiosity and love, ask questions, allow them to speak to you and share with you. But keep your emotional reactions, and whatever you so don't. So don't, don't get not get support, right, you need to get support, if your kid comes to you, and comes out to you in some way. Because it is going to create reactions and feelings in you, you're a human, but where you're dealing with that is not with your kid. That's where you're having conversations with your partners or your friends or your therapist. That's where you have that discussion. Your child is just about acceptance and understanding.
Annie:Yeah, yeah. I love that. I mean, those are such good points. And I think one of the things that comes to mind for me is, you know, I, I'm in my 40s, and I've lived my, you know, up to up till now, with using, you know, with the learned language and the things that I say, you know, she or he or you know, and it's so it's, for me, I find it challenging to start changing the way that I talk. And I don't know if I mean, I, I'm assuming that a lot of people are the same way where you, you know, like, you know, the importance of it, and you want to so desperately, but it's not so easy. Um, are there any tips for adults, full grown adults who are so used to saying things one way and how do you own that in? changer, your vocabulary?
Dr. Mel:Okay. So start by developing an awareness of how you're using your language, right? So noticing that you do tend to go to the binary prominent pronouns of he, she or that you are asking, Hey, are there any boys you like? Right? When you're asked talking to your girls, or vice versa, when you're talking to your boys. So just sort of starting to develop that awareness. That does take some intentionality, right? You have to be intentional about paying attention to yourself. And then it's a status all the time to parents, it's okay to say, Oh, I'm sorry. Or, you know, what I said do you like boys? But do you like any girls? Right? Is there, Is there any, like, just continue the discussion, like, if you notice, you've asked it in a very biased way, it's okay to go back and be like, you know, what, I made an assumption that you may only like girls like me, like boys, are there any boys care class that you're interested in? Right? Because you can it's okay to name that had made a mistake. If you mis-gender, somebody or you use the wrong pronouns, it's okay to say, You know what, that that's not fair to you, because that's not the pronoun you told me to use. Yeah. So I'm going to make a conscious effort to try to do this differently. You're human, nobody is expecting perfection. It's when people are afraid to fail. And it's when parents are afraid to show their kids vulnerability, that we actually do more harm.
Annie:Yeah, that's so true. So admitting your mistake. And just being honest and saying, I messed up. Let me try again. I think that that is that really goes a long way. And I think it definitely is more empowering, as a mom, to know that, that you can have do overs and your children can also have do overs.
Dr. Mel:Yeah your kid can have do-overs and they learn they can have do overs, right?
Annie:Yes. It's so important. Well, thank you so much. I mean, this is such a wonderful conversation. I mean, you are a wealth of wisdom. And you know, and you've just knowledge of how to navigate these difficult situations. And I just really appreciate all your advice, Dr. Mel, and thanks for being being on here with us.
Dr. Mel:Absolutely. This has been a great conversation at the time went so fast. Yeah, it was really nice, engaging, it really just felt like I was hanging out with my girlfriends.
Annie:Same here, same here. Here's what's new at Moms Meet and KIWI magazine. We had such an amazing time at WOW Summit '22 Virtual last week. Thank you everyone who attended and thank you to all our incredible sponsors and speakers. Stay tuned to hear more about our plans for 2023. KIWI magazine's 2022 Spring issue is out now. Featuring fresh recipes, family, mental health advice, crafts and more, there are so many amazing articles to check out this season. Plus, dive deeper into what you need to know about climate change and its impact on your kids health. This episode is brought to you in part by Healthy Heights. As moms we strive to ensure our kids are getting balanced nutrition to support healthy growth and development. Healthy Heights grow daily kids three plus protein and nutritional mix provides everything kids need and nothing they don't develop by a team of doctors and dieticians. This shake mix is uniquely formulated for children ages three to nine, with the right combination of ingredients to fill nutritional gaps, including 12 grams of protein, as well as essential vitamins, minerals, micro and macro nutrients and only three grams of sugar per serving. Well, thank you so much for listening everyone and make sure you hit the subscribe button so you don't miss the latest podcast episodes. And thanks for conquering, healthy living at all ages and stages of life with us.