A food allergy diagnosis can sometimes leave a parent grasping for answers. But recent research has shown that the gut microbiome may just be the key to understanding why a person develops an allergic disease. It can also clue us in to how to lower our child’s risk of developing a food allergy as well.
In this episode, we hear from Dr. Elisa Song, an integrative pediatrician and functional medicine expert, about the fascinating connection between the gut microbiome and food allergies as well as overall health. We also take a deeper look into the developing research focused on potential therapies utilizing the gut microbiota.
A food allergy diagnosis can sometimes leave a parent grasping for answers. But recent research has shown that the gut microbiome may just be the key to understanding why a person develops an allergic disease. It can also clue us in to how to lower our child’s risk of developing a food allergy as well.
In this episode, we hear from Dr. Elisa Song, an integrative pediatrician and functional medicine expert, about the fascinating connection between the gut microbiome and food allergies as well as overall health. We also take a deeper look into the developing research focused on potential therapies utilizing the gut microbiota.
Welcome to raising healthy families with Moms Meet and KIWI. We're giving you the tools to enjoy the beauty and chaos of life with little ones in the healthiest way possible.
Maureen:Hi everyone. I'm Maureen Frost, editorial director and today's host. In this episode I'm talking with Dr. Elisa Song, mom and holistic pediatrician to discuss the connection between the gut microbiome and food allergies This episode is brought to you in part by Forager project organic kids cashew milk yogurt. If you've been struggling to find a healthy snack your kids love try Forager project organic kids cashew milk yogurt made especially for kids and packed with probiotics, calcium and essential vitamins D, A, and, B12. This new yogurt comes in 3.2 ounce pouches that make it easy for families to take on the go. This organic yogurt alternative is also dairy free, vegan, non-GMO, gluten free, and soy free. And with three creamy and smooth flavors, Berry Berry, Strawberry and Mango even the pickiest eaters are sure to be satisfied. Today we are joined by Dr. Elisa Song an integrative pediatrician, pediatric functional medicine expert and mom to two thriving children. In her integrative pediatric practice Whole Family Wellness she's helped 1000s of kids get to the root causes of their health concerns, and help their parents understand how to help their children thrive, body, mind and spirit by integrating conventional pediatrics with functional medicine, homeopathy, acupuncture, herbal medicine and essential oils. Dr. Song created healthy kids happy kids as an online holistic pediatric resource to help practice practitioners and parents bridge the gap between conventional and integrative pediatrics with an evidence based pediatrician backed approach. Dr. Song, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so excited to have you on our podcast.
Dr. Elisa Song:Thanks Maureen. And it's an honor for me to be here with all of you mamas on this podcast. I'm super excited.
Maureen:Yeah, I'm sure our moms are so excited to hear from you. You've spoken at a few of our events and are such a great resource for us all. I can't wait to jump into this conversation and talk about food allergies, because my daughter has a peanut allergy. So it's personal to me and I this area of research and and the connection between the two is so exciting. And I'm really excited to learn more about how food allergies and the gut microbiome are connected.
Dr. Elisa Song:Yeah, I mean, it's so amazing. This connects. I'm really excited for this. Yeah, this is a good one, there's so much that we need to know.
Maureen:Yeah, there is. And you know what, as an allergy parent, like it makes me feel hopeful that there is this emerging area of research. You know, hopefully down the road, it'll help our kids who are who have food allergies. So to start, I want to just kind of start from the top and get into how does the gut microbiome affect our overall immune system.
Dr. Elisa Song:So when we think about the gut microbiome, first, in order to define the gut microbiome, we have over 70, maybe 100 trillion microbes that live in our gut, and that's our gut microbiome. And most of us think of the gut microbiome as just bacteria, but it's actually an intimate kind of intricate community of bacteria and viruses and fungus and even parasites kind of all living together in harmony. And, you know, the saying that all health starts in the gut, or more accurately, Hippocrates said all disease starts in the gut really, even centuries later is so true. As we're seeing all of this research on the gut microbiome and the gut brain connection and the gut immune system connection and the gut. Immune System connection is so important, especially for our young children. Our gut microbiome really shapes how their developing immune system develops and lays the groundwork for future immune health. So when we think about one example I give to parents is, you know, thinking about tonsils. You know, as little kids little kids often have fairly big tonsils in the back of their throat and tonsils are immune tissue. So our gut is lined with all of these tonsil like patches. They're called pious patches. And in fact, these these pirates, patches, the immune system, and our gut makes up the largest part of our immune system. So the majority of our immune system is in our gut, not in our blood. Okay, so we have to think about how important is to keep our gut happy. And one of the first interfaces, really the first and largest interface, anything in the outside world, whether it's food or infections, or toxins are in our gut. I mean, we're one big hollow tube, right? I mean, we're, like, you know, from the from our mouth all the way down to the bottom where the poop comes out. And that interface it lives, our gut microbes, and when our gut is exposed and our microbes are exposed to these foods or infections are toxic, they play a really important role in deciding how to tell our immune system, what to do do with those? Are they friend or foe? Right? And, you know, can we build tolerance. And so when our gut microbes sense that there's, there's something that's not too friendly, they call on all the troops and they create more inflammation, right. And sometimes, if that's ongoing, we'll have chronic inflammation, sometimes will actually get our immune system primed because of the way our gut microbiome is talking to our blood immune system, our immune system thinks, oh, this is actually part of me and starts attacking parts of our own cells. And that's when autoimmunity develops. And so when we have food allergies, a lot of is because our gut microbiome has not interpreted those foods appropriately. And so then our immune system starts to say, oh, my gosh, this is a foe I need to attack I need to create an allergy. And the way our gut microbiome develops, from, even from the time they're inside our bodies, right inside our uterus or womb, from the moment that they're born, we can see the effects of the gut microbiome on their future risks for developing not just food allergies, but any allergic disease.
Maureen:Yeah, that's, that's, I'm glad you explained it in that way that makes it so clear how it's happening, because it's telling your body that, you know, this is not, this is not a friendly thing to you. But in reality, you know, it's just a food that is common to everyone. So it's so interesting how different bodies react, so are some kids more at risk than others for food allergies?
Dr. Elisa Song:Yeah. So you know, there's a concept called gut dysbiosis, where that's an imbalance of the gut microbes, where we have sometimes we have, sometimes gut dysbiosis, because we have too little of the good stuff. What people know is probiotics, right? We have all those good bugs in our gut, sometimes it's an imbalance with too much of the bad stuff, whether it's abnormal bad bacteria, or, bad bacteria, yeast in our system, the wrong kinds of parasites or viruses. And we know that gut dysbiosis is abnormal array of gut microbes seems to in the literature, precede come before the development of food allergies, right. And so anything that increases our children's risk of gut dysbiosis can increase our risk for food allergies and gut dysbiosis. Now, in this in our modern modern world, you know, with all of its amazing conveniences, also goes with it, a lot of the inconveniences that increase our risk for gut my gut dysbiosis. You know, one of the well, I will say that the biggest biggest disruptor of the gut microbiome is antibiotics. And we know that antibiotics, I mean, there's a time and a place for everything. And as an integrated pediatrician, I use antibiotics at my office. But we also know that antibiotics are often used inappropriately, you know, overuse of antibiotics is contributing to antibiotic resistance, which alarmingly, I just read this article not too long ago that by 2050, it's expected that antibiotic resistance is going to be one of the leading causes of death in the world, which is really scary. So we want to make sure we're using antibiotics appropriately. And then also, when we're using antibiotics appropriately, we want to make sure we know how to mop up some of the inadvertent damage that can occur because antibiotics will kill the bad bugs. But there, they don't pick and choose what they kill, they're going to kill all the good bugs inside our gut microbes inside our gut as well. So, you know, we want to know, what are those factors for disrupting the gut microbiome and in children, in fact, it was a study of nearly 800,000 kids. It was a military study. So they have access to all of these databases. And they looked at Babies who are given antibiotics, or antacid medications in the first six months of life. And they found that you know that there was a significantly increased risk of every single allergic disease including food allergies, eczema, asthma and environmental allergies and hives. By the time those children were four years of age, so, and the author speculates because of the disruption to the gut microbiome. Now, I always pause here, right? Because you know, if you're an allergy mom, right, or you know, your kids have eczema or asthma, and you're going back and thinking, Oh, my God, right? I my kid got antibiotics, right? You know, before there were six weeks or you're thinking well, I got antibiotics when when I was delivered because of Group B strep, or, well, they had really bad reflux and they're put on antacid medication, and now they food allergies. I mean, you can't go back in time and change that. So I just, I want to just make sure that moms know we can always move forward. Right You know, just you just have to let go of that mom guilt that comes when we first learned this.
Maureen:Yeah, don't you worry. I definitely think that I am the reason she has it. I'm just trying to figure out what I did.
Dr. Elisa Song:We have so many reasons to feel guilty for everything right. I mean, I still to this day, my daughter is 12, she's almost 13 And I think about the tuna fish sandwich I had when I was pregnant with her. I feel like, okay, you got to just stop that. But but we just know, all right, we know these factors that can that can contribute to gut dysbiosis in our kids. How do we move forward? How do we use that knowledge to make change? Because we are now food allergies a little bit different? Because we know, you know, it's tricky to say that we can, quote, cure them, we there's so many possibilities that we're going to go into that a little bit, but we can know the factors that can reduce your next child's risk of developing food allergies, and also reduce the impact of the food allergies that you know, on your child. So, you know, that's that's how we just want to move forward. Right?
Maureen:Yeah, absolutely. So as far as talking about antibiotics, I know that just even this year, my daughter who's now passed one and a half on our way to two, she's had to take antibiotics twice this year, for ear infections, you know, it's pretty common that that might happen. What am I supposed to be doing to to support her gut health during this phase, after this phase? Are there things that will will help her kind of rebound from clearing out everything?
Dr. Elisa Song:Yeah, I mean, what 100% Because, you know, of course, there, like I said, there's a time and a place for everything. I mean, antibiotics can be life, saving antibiotics can be absolutely necessary. One thing though, is, you know, as an integrative pediatrician, integrating all of these different modalities, I use these tools to see can we try to avoid unnecessary antibiotics mean, let's take your infections as an example. ear aches are the number one reason for visit to the doctor's office, right? Number one, and we know that you know about 40%, probably half of all your infections are viral, which will, with antibiotics won't do anything for you know, another 40% are bacterial, another, another good chunk are kind of mixed, you know, maybe even fungal, right. And even of those bacterial infections, we know that a lot of them will actually resolve on their own. So which is why the American Academy of Pediatrics changed their guidelines years ago, just to take this sort of wait for watching approach. And then you know, only if, after maybe two days or so things are getting worse to try the antibiotics. But this is where I use, you know, things that actually in the literature have been shown to be helpful. Regardless of whether the bacterial or viral like garlic air drops, there actually is evidence that those can help resolve ear infections, sometimes even faster than the antibiotics so that way we can avoid a systemic, you know, an oral antibiotic, if possible. But, you know, there are gonna be times when our kids take antibiotics for whatever reason. And yes, we need to know, how do we have the benefits of killing the bad bugs without the fallout, like you said, you know, killing the good bugs, right. And so, you know, when your child needs antibiotics, we want to know, what are what are the different ways that we could keep their gut microbiome, you know, as healthy and happy as possible and restore the gut microbiome that may be wiped out by those antibiotics and also help restore the gut lining because there's a phenomenon called quote, leaky gut that can also be associated with gut dysregulation. And so, of course, there's the probiotics, right? We can take a probiotic supplement, and we can take a prebiotic supplement prebiotics are the fibers that help to help to feed your probiotics, but that helps. It's not often everything that's needed, because it's kind of I, I liken it to, you know, sprinkling like Jack in the beanstalk sprinkling his beads on the ground, and all of a sudden, he's magic beanstalk scoop, not as simple as that, right? We also need the right environment in our gut for those probiotics to stick. So really, during that time around that time, especially, you know, when your child is taking antibiotics, trying to get off their gut friendly foods. Now I know for some picky kids, this is one of the last thing that is going to be possible to happen but we slowly work on it. But really getting in, if you can fermented foods, you know, things like kombucha or Kefir or miso soup, or if your kids have a wider palette, or work on it, sauerkraut, kimchi, all these things are fermented that a recent study last year out of Stanford found that fermented foods actually have more bang for the buck in terms of getting restoring a healthy gut microbiome, than fiber but we also have fiber, right? We want that variety of whole fruits and vegetables and, and beans and whole grains and getting in that variety. So that's going to help keep her gut bugs happy. But we also need to understand some of the lifestyle factors that also play a role. It's all so interconnected. But we found that having good gut bacteria can help with sleep because our gut microbes make serotonin which is our kind of feel good Uh, you know, stay calm neurotransmitter that is the precursor to melatonin to help to sleep. But vice versa sleep also helps support a healthy gut microbiome, right? So it's kind of this this positive cycle. So encouraging sleep, I would say one of the things that we want to really make sure during this time and always is to be aware of the impact of, of these ultra processed highly processed foods on our gut microbiome. And I am not going to say that I'd never live out of out of a package. I mean, we're heading right into back to school. And I mean, I'm already thinking about oh, my gosh, the lunches I have to pack every day, right? And we that's like, you know, I think every every mom's one of the biggest stressors serving mom, like what am I going to pack, right. And so we have, you know, packages that we put in, you know, Nori snacks and popcorn and things like that. But you want to be savvy about choosing processed foods that are minimally processed, right? Food additives, the food industry has created these additives to make foods taste sweeter, saltier, you know, richer, hold together, not fall apart and disintegrate in the baggage. And these these food additives, especially these things called emulsifiers, which are even found in our baby formula, can directly cause gut dysbiosis. And, you know, in other parts of the world, there's been links with these food emulsifiers. And the increase rates of autoimmunity that we're seeing in children and adults, right, and we can consider, you know, eczema, asthma, food allergies, in a way they are this kind of auto immune reactivity, or our immune systems are reacting when they shouldn't be. And you know, on most sufferers, if you emulsifiers, are in virtually every Ultra processed food, I mean, even things like yogurt, if you if you look at some of the yogurt, so have these emulsifiers. And that's going to be these chemicals that are hard to pronounce. Right? If you have to look up, you know, what an ingredient is on Google, it's probably something you don't want to put into your body. But these emulsifiers make it so that that that yogurt or that ice cream in your freezer, doesn't become a goopy mess and hold things together. Right, as opposed to like, if you made some, you know, fresh yogurt at home, you're gonna eat it fairly quickly. You're not going to eat it months and months from now, you know, I mean, you're right. It's not going to have as long as shelf life.
Maureen:Yeah, that's so. So interesting. So food allergies, as you kind of just touched on are on the rise, especially in the US and other industrial industrialized nations. Do you think that there are any other contributing factors that have been found to to cause this rise?
Dr. Elisa Song:Well, there's a I mean, yes, several different factors. I mean, one of the most important ones that we think about is, you know, many parents are aware of something called the, quote, hygiene hypothesis, where we're just, we're just living to clean, right? You know, we know that. It's fascinating, when you look at the studies of the gut microbiome, of children with food allergies, and children without food allergies, they have a very different pattern, right? It's a different pattern of the kinds of gut microbes that are present. And so you know, the, one of the keys we want to introduce our kids early on in life to a variety of different microbes. Having that variety and having that diversity of the different kinds of gut bugs is really important. We don't want to kind of pigeonhole their gut microbiome into a static pattern. And we know that the gut microbiome, in that first two to three years of life has a kind of golden opportunity, let's call it to develop a healthy pattern. And the pattern after that is, gets much more difficult to change. Right? Not impossible, but more difficult. And in those first two, three years of life, there's a lot of crosstalk between the gut and the immune system that sets the stage for priming, what is going to happen down the road, you know, what they're at risk, or later on in life. And so, you know, we want to make sure that early on, you know, we expose our kids to, well, they've actually found that having some older siblings reduces risk of allergies in kids, because I mean, kids are kind of messy and germy, right? We all know that as parents, but that helps your babies, right? Because we all know the first child. And we were all so much more careful with them like when we let you know grandparents hold them or, you know, when we let them touch things. The second kid I mean, it's kind of Free For All right? So that second sibling often has a lower risk for food allergies. And then also, you know, having pets or living on a farm those can reduce your risk of food allergies and allergies in general allergic disease. So, you know, let your kids get dirty letting them play outside. You're not being afraid of germs, and we're in such a unique time right now right during the pandemic. Make where we need to balance, you know, a healthy respect for, you know, the different microbes that are out there affecting our kids. And also needing to not call every single germ of foe, right? We need these we have more microbiome microbial cells in our body than human cells. So we have to think, like, who's actually serving who, right? Like, who do we need to keep happy in order to keep us quote, happy. So we have this kind of ultra hygiene that we're living in. And then also, our, like I said, our modern world, this ultra processed, ultra fast world where our diet and lifestyle are really, I mean, all of these forces are working against having a healthy gut microbiome. And I mentioned the food additives, but glyphosate, which is Roundup, which is a pesticide sprayed on foods, what many parents don't realize, and not just parents, I mean, even practitioners don't realize is that glyphosate was originally patented as an antibiotic. So when you have a food that's not organic, it's going to immediately have an effect on your gut microbiome. And so you know, is this to say that zero packaged foods 100%, organic, you know, that's not going to be real life for most of us, right? I mean, most of us aren't, aren't living on a farm where we can help grow our own foods and, you know, have have hours a day to make everything fresh and homemade. And so we need to just understand if we can keep all of these other factors optimized, like getting enough sleep, getting enough movement, getting enough love, give hugs, and kisses, and right, that's going to really help support our child's gut microbiome in our gut microbiome. So even in the face of antibiotics, or some food additives, or some glyphosate, you're trying to minimize, it's not going to tip the scale for kids developing outright gut dysbiosis.
Maureen:It's just gonna up the risk. So it's interesting, what I gained from that is that I read that too. And it's so fascinating that siblings, dogs, and living on a farm can lower your risk. And now I'm like, Okay, if my husband hears this, then he's gonna start asking for a dog and use this test. But, um, you know what that tells me, obviously, we don't, I don't live on a farm. But to get our kids out and playing and getting messy and dirty, will benefit them greatly. And allowing them to go be with nature, not just in your backyard, but go out and hikes and parks and things like that is definitely like really important for for their well being. I love that, because obviously, it's good for your mental health. And now it also for your physical health, too. So something else I want to talk about, because I've read this, you know, in my research, and in my studies, and I've heard it before, about the difference of your child's gut microbiome and what happens to it, whether or not they're born by vaginal delivery, or C section delivery. Um, I was always very interested in this too, because I've had two C sections. The first was an emergency. The second was planned. And, you know, off the bat, you're like, oh, no, that's like an that's something I didn't think about when it was happening. You're just thinking that I need my child to be safe and healthy. Yes. So is there a difference? And then what as a C section Mom, can you do to support your baby's got health in those early days?
Dr. Elisa Song:Yeah. And this is also again, going back to really thinking about knowledge is power. But but it's not there to induce guilt, of course, because you can't change how your baby with was brutal.
Maureen:And I'm so thankful that my baby was born that way, because we were in an emergency situation. So you have to look at it from all sides.
Dr. Elisa Song:100%, it's really, you know, it's about, you know, taking really embracing these these modern medical advances that have occurred, and now we have to step back and say, Okay, well, what are some of the unintended consequences of those, right, that that through no fault of your own as a mom, we just now need to know and understand. So, you know, we know that the gut microbiome so it used to be thought that babies were born with a quote, sterile gut like no gut bugs. And, you know, that's come into question. You know, there is now more evidence that the placenta has its own microbiome and, you know, your, of course, your vagina has a microbiome. Every single one of our organs has its own microbiome, even your breast glands has their own mammary microbiome. I mean, it's fascinating. Our eyeballs have their own microbiome, right? So we have all of these different gut bugs. And so when moms are our babies are born vaginally, they get the benefit of being exposed to mom's vaginal and fecal microbiome, right? Because I mean, think of how close your vagina and your anus are. So there's exposure there. I mean, it sounds kind of gross, but it's true. It's the way it is right? And so, so they have that exposure. Right and as as they come out, you know, through the womb and through the vaginal canal, they get that exposure, they're swallowing some of that, and it gets into their gut, and their intestines and has a chance to colonize. Now, when babies are born by C section, what are the microbes out there that they're more exposed to, they're exposed to skin bacteria, right. And so even early on, we can see that the gut microbiome at C section for babies who are more similar to the skin bacteria of their moms and of the you know, the doctors who and the nurses who handled them and so now, there is some controversy over how long that changed. Last thumb studies have shown, those changes might last for years. Others note that within a couple of months, those changes kind of equalize. But regardless, it's at early in the early days. It's a little different. Right. Now, we also know you know, even even if your word vaginally, if you have Group B strep, and you receive antibiotics to prevent Group B strep sepsis, and your baby, that also is going to then clear out your own your mom's maternal gut microbiome, a vaginal microbiome. So that's also a consideration with not just C section is if you receive antibiotics during the delivery, right. So there have been some, some different options tried to more to equalize the gut microbiome of C section birth babies of vaginal birth babies, and what is something called vaginal seeding, where there's a swab placed in mom's vagina, and then that swab is then for that sector, baby swab over their eyes, nose, mouth, and you know, really trying to get those good vaginal bacteria into the baby. And so these are, you know, again, they're kind of mixed. But that's a really interesting idea. Right. And I think for babies who are born, either to moms who receive antibiotics during the delivery, whether their vaginal birth, or C section, or or born by C section, it's really important to get that mom and baby's gut microbiome back on track. And so during those times, I do recommend a probiotic for mom and baby and one that has prebiotics in it to help support the growth of that healthy gut microbiome. Ideally, in the ideal world, we would optimize all mothers gut microbiomes, even before they become pregnant, because there's a lot of that crosstalk to do to mom's gut microbiome and her immune system, the baby's immune system, and baby's developing brain in utero. So that would be amazing. If there was that knowledge out there to do that. And then after babies are born, we know that breast milk has these amazing factors that helps support a healthy gut microbiome developing in that baby and help keep out some of the negative gut flora that we don't want in there. There are things called human milk oligosaccharides, or HMOs. There's MCT, found in in breast milk, that all helped to support a healthy gut microbiome. And so we want to support that as much as possible. And for some moms, you know, breastfeeding is not possible exclusively or not possible for a variety of reasons. And so then we want to be mindful of, okay, how do we choose a formula and of course, with the formula shortages has been, I mean, just insane, but, but we want to help support a mom and choosing the healthiest formula for their babies, like, yeah, without the guilt if they really, you know, maybe wanted to nurse and for whatever reason, like I said, it's not possible or desired. But there are there are formulas now that are mimicking those HMOs, right, and getting in this healthy prebiotics into formula to help support the gut microbiome of babies even baby even if they're formula fed or not exclusively breastfed. So again, making these decisions with the with the question in mind, how is this going to support my baby's gut microbiome? And how do I how do I make choices that aren't going to be awful to my baby?
Maureen:such a great thing to hear that, like you can choose a formula that will definitely support you better and that way, and just it's just about education and understanding that because I don't think when I went into, you know, I was lucky enough to be able to breastfeed both my kids for a long time. But then at some point towards the end, I weaned a little because I was working and pumping. And you know, the whole thing trying to balance it all. Deciding, okay, what's the right formula, and I went with one that was organic, but I never thought about the probiotic, part two, which is, you know, just as important, more important, I'm not sure but very important. And so it's good to understand that and it's great to hear that there are options out there for moms, and that hopefully will relieve some guilt for many I know that I loved being able to use formula towards the end there. So yeah.
Dr. Elisa Song:Yeah. And it's just it's now it's really, you know, the the A lot of the research is there. And now we just have to translate it into, you know, actual manufacturing processes. And I mean, we all know that food manufacturers don't necessarily have the best interests of our babies or us in mind. And so it's, it's now it's I mean, it's, you know, with podcasts like this with getting information out that we can, we can really demand that change. And, you know, maybe maybe it's not gonna happen for our first child, but maybe we can have a for our next child or for the next child or for our grandchildren.
Maureen:Or are you like, just your friends that you're talking to, like, now I know more I can help my friends. And yeah, it's good. Like, it might not, who knows what's down the road for me, but like, just the fact that we're able to share this information is amazing. So if a child has a food allergy, like, a lot of times as an allergy parent, we're usually totally told, all right, we'll wait and see if they grow out of it. We might challenge them, they in a couple years, we might be able to start a therapy in a few years when they're a little bit older. But is there anything that we can be doing nutrition or lifestyle wise, in the meantime to support them?
Dr. Elisa Song:Yeah, I mean, a ton, right? Because, I mean..
Maureen:For sure. Taking notes, yes.
Dr. Elisa Song:I mean, like I like you said, I mean, there are some fascinating, you know, food desensitization options out there, but it's a long road, right? It's a very long road. And then it's just a long road, right? And it's also not an option available to all moms and all children. Right? And so we want to know, you know, given that, you know, maybe I have a child in front of me who you know, is has anaphylactic peanut allergies or egg allergies or, you know, shellfish allergies, what can I do to support them? So that, you know, first of all, they don't develop new allergies, because sometimes that does happen, right? And also, you know, try to bolster their immune system so that they have even, even if exposed, not intentionally, but even if exposed, we can, hopefully minimize their chances of having a really severe reaction. So and so much of that resides in a healthy gut, I mean, everything we're talking about, right? And so, you know, having a diversity of other foods, you know, other fruits and vegetables, that variety, in fact, you know, in terms of prevention for your next child, we really found I mean, it's the food allergies kind of state of the world was really turned upside down. And when I was training, we were told, okay, none of the allergens the first year of life, right, and now we know Okay, early introduction is it can be very helpful. And having variety in this first two years of life is really important. But for for kids who already have allergies, what are we really, what's one of our goals, it's to reduce histamine, you know, overreactions, right? It's to stabilize a white blood cell called a mast cell, that is the main cause of you know, releasing these massive amounts of histamine when a food allergen attaches to it. And so the different ways that we can think about how do we manage histamine at a at a at a, at a level that it's healthy for our kids and so, one thing is to think about foods that are rich in something called quercetin, quercetin it's, it's a natural compound found in a variety of foods and herbs, that is a natural mast cell stabilizer. So what does that mean? If you have your white blood cell, your mast cell and when let's say a peanut protein attaches to that mast cell quesiton stabilizes that mast cells so less histamine is released upon exposure. Okay, so the more quercetin we have in our system, the more ideal it is for not just because with food allergies, but for kids where a histamine is a problem like asthma, eczema, you know, hay fever, and so the foods that are rich and corseted and I have some list lists on my blog but you know, things like the apples like the skin red skin of apples you want to eat of the peel, you know different berries all of those cruciferous you know, leafy green vegetables that we're trying to get in any way right? You know, like kale and cauliflower and Brussels sprouts and collard greens. Tea also so good to have if your kids love tea get like it's a caffeinated green tea you know green or black tea actually is rich and quercetin and rich and these polyphenols that are amazing antioxidant so I mean my kids are drinking tea early on and so we have like a whole you know, collection of yummy different teas and you know, we'll often have different like tea party that they time and just have that be a way we end the night so and you can find on online list of all these different quercetin rich foods. And then thinking about zinc. Zinc is one of the most common nutritional deficiencies in children and and probably adults as well. But This is one of the reasons why the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends animal proteins as as one of the earliest foods and we used to wait that used to be kind of like stage two or stage three at start with vegetables. And now you want to get in proteins as early as possible. Knowing that proteins are a rich source of iron and zinc and iron and zinc are two of the most common nutrient nutritional deficiencies in our babies. Well, what is the other benefit of zinc, zinc also stabilizes histamine release, it also can act as a natural mast cell stabilizer, it also helps support a healthy gut lining. It also helps to support healthy skin lining I mean, there's been a fascinating study looking at you know, for kids with eczema using a barrier on their skin so that their skin doesn't absorb so many of the, you know, different different food proteins that it can reduce the risk of, of allergies and eczema. So, if you have though, a healthy skin lining, healthy gut lining, you're going to be less at risk for that. So we need thick so where is it? I mean, zinc levels are highly correlated with animal protein intake. Especially, you know, shellfish and shrimp, I mean, really high end thing. But you know, other animal proteins as well. But you can also get vegetarian sources of protein. And I love those too. And those I've seen, you know, these are your nuts and seeds and legumes. Pumpkin seeds are amazing. I had one little girl who was low in zinc, when I measured her blood levels. And the parent the family was vegetarian. So what the parents did, Bob did was grind up pumpkin seeds into powder and put them into everything, put them into her oatmeal, put them into her applesauce, put them into you know the the zucchini bread, she was baking, and her levels went up amazingly well. So pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, cashews, if your child's not not allergic, garbanzo beans, all of those nuts, seeds, legumes, which also play double duty and being really high in fiber. And fiber is our gut proba our gut microbiomes fever friend, right? I mean, they eat that fiber ferment that fiber into these amazing compounds to support our gut microbiome. So those are something that we could do to help support. And then we think about when choosing foods, it's all the things I mentioned before, looking at the packages, choosing foods that have minimally processed ingredients, choosing organic when possible, you know, looking at many mobs, let's see are familiar with the Environmental Working Groups, Dirty Dozen list, right? So just you know, making sure that those and kale is always on that list strawberry always on that list. So choosing those organic, even if other foods you're you know, you're not able to find or source or, frankly afford organically.
Maureen:So well, as an allergy parent, you just gave me so much helpful information that I feel like okay, I can go and make sure that my kids are getting these types of foods. I you know, you try, you're always trying, but if there's like a focus, then for me, that's great. So thank you so much for that that was such a good explanation. I really appreciate that. And I'm sure other parents are listening as well and taking notes. Go back and write down everything that you said.
Dr. Elisa Song:Well, because we don't want to just give this nebulous, okay, eat more fruits and vegetables. We want to focus.
Maureen:Right, yeah, this is so helpful. Oh my gosh, and I didn't know any of that, you know, and and, and so now you've added to my knowledge, and it's just, it's amazing, I'm going to really, really take some steps there. Alright, so I want to switch a little bit and let's talk about the emerging areas of research. When we talk about the connection between our gut health and food allergies. There have been some therapeutics that are in studies phases right now and in development, used it used an aimed at the gut microbiome for food allergies, even one that I've read about fecal microbiota transplantation, which is super interesting. I know all of this is very emerging in in the earlier phases. But is there anything any therapeutics that are, you know, we should know about that are interesting that are potentially promising coming down the line?
Dr. Elisa Song:Yeah, there are actually many promising avenues of research going on right now. Some easier to implement than others. There are many, many, many studies, ongoing and past studies on the role of probiotic and prebiotic supplements to prevent and treat allergic diseases. Again, not just food allergies, but any allergic disease like eczema, asthma and hay fever. In particular, I mean, this is such an old study, and I think, oh my gosh, we need to get this information out there. But I want to say the study was maybe even from the 80s, right? I mean, it's just it was decades ago, but there's the most commonly studied probiotic strain for allergy and allergic disease is lactobacillus rhamnosus. Right, and you'll find there's a variety of products Notice that supplements that have that in there, the one that's been most commonly studied as a single, you know, lactobacillus rhamnosus is easily found on the shelves. It's called a culture, right. But in one study that's fascinating, was giving lactobacillus rhamnosus to pregnant moms in their third trimester, you know, for the duration of their nursing, for those moms who had a family risk factor of allergic disease, and there's a significant reduction in the risk of allergic disease in their babies, just by giving their moms this probiotics, right. And there are you know, we see studies showing that probiotics, and prebiotics can be helpful for eczema, asthma, and allergic rhinitis, and maybe even for preventing and resolving helping to resolve food allergies. Now, there's not no protocols in place. And we can't definitively say that that's going to make a difference. But what's the harm in taking that, right? I mean, that's, I mean, taking a prebiotic and probiotic supplement is one of the easiest things we can do.
Maureen:So it's so funny. When I started reading about this, I saw like the strain and I ran to my fridge, and I was like, okay, my probiotic that I'm giving my daughter. I was like, Oh, phew, it's in there were good. Yeah, you know, it's a common one. So it's good, but it's just, you know, knowing that it could potentially support her is cool. You know, we already are already doing it.
Dr. Elisa Song:Yeah. And it's not I mean, really, because whenever I think of an intervention, and we and we have to think, you know, so here's the thing, the some of the research has shown that it can take up to or longer than 17 years for the research to translate into clinical practice, right? I mean, our kids don't have that long to wait. Right? So then we have to take, you know, the evidence, it's look and see what's promising right now, what's doable right now, and what is not going to cause harm but have potential benefit. And that's, I mean, I think probiotics and prebiotics are in that category. Right? I mean, like I said, getting your fermented foods, but a lot of kids don't have a palate yet for like a huge bowl full of sauerkraut. I do have kids, you know, early on when parents that was some of the first foods introduced, and they love, love, love, like pickles, sauerkraut, you know, olives, but you know, try keep trying, right? Another area of research that is fascinating is like you said, it's fecal microbiota transplantation, or, you know, fecal transplants. And what is that? I mean, it's, it's literally taking poop from a healthy subject, and transplanting it into the, you know, into the gut, right, of a quote, you know, not healthy or subject with that condition. Right. So then you're thinking, Oh, my gosh, am I eating poop? I mean, kind of, in a way, right? You're getting you're you're cultivating out those gut microbes from that healthy subject. And a lot of these studies have been done on rats, right. But there are some human studies as well. And you could take it, you can do it as you know, peak, literally a fecal transplant where you're just transplant that into the child's or patient's microbiome, or they can encapsulate it to swallow it. Right. So there's different ways to do. But the research is so fascinating. I mean, one of the earlier studies on fecal microbiota transplantation was actually done on kids with autism, and found that when you can transplant, you know, a healthy gut microbiome into these children with autism, they had a significant reduction in these quote, autistic symptoms, you know, improve social sociability, you know, less rigidity, you know, all those neuropsychiatric symptoms that go along with autism. It's fascinating. Yeah, one of the more well known studies, is, is in obese rats. Okay? So and rats actually are very similar to humans in their physiology. That's why there are a lot of these rat studies. So they took the feces, right the stool, the poop of these obese rats and transplanted it into skinny rats, and they're skinny rats became fat, even without changing their diet and exercise, right. And they did the same thing with with rats with depressive behavior. I mean, you can't really call a rat depressed, but you know, these, quote, depressed rats. They took their microbiome, put them into rats without depressive behavior. And then those non depressed rats develop depressive behaviors, right? It is that powerful, right? The power of our gut microbiome. And so there are also there have been microbiome studies, FMT, fecal transplant studies, on, you know, rats with food allergies, and transplanting into rats without food allergies, and those rats subsequently developed an allergic phenotype allergic sensitivities. And so, you know, that that to me, I mean, amazing, right. So first of all points to wow, we could just understand how to have a healthy gut microbiome, you know, through your entire life, right? From conception to, you know, your elderly days, even got despite osis has been linked with Alzheimer's right and dementia. So how do we do that? Because prevention would be amazing, right? And then if we have the opportunity, if we have the possibility of treating kids who have food allergies with fecal transplants, you know, how do we make that accessible to kids? Because it's been right now, the only approved indication for fecal transplants in kids in people is recurrent C diff, intestinal infections. And so I've had parents, you know, have kids with autism St. Luke's study, so promising, can I get a fecal transplant? And no, you know, I mean, not not here in the States, you know, not in a clinically approved center and a hospital setting. And so, you know, we need to make that accessible. And then my question is always, well, how do you find that perfect poop? Like, how do you? How do you find how do you define the ideal gut microbes microbes to be transplanted? Because I don't want to take this really narrow view and say, All right, my kid has food allergies, I'm going to transplant the gut microbes that can help prevent food allergies, or, or reverse or food allergies. But what about all the other ones that help support their mood, and you know, and their focus and their sleep? So we want to really take a more broad, holistic viewpoint, but the fact that that this is potential future therapeutic is definitely something to watch.
Maureen:Yeah, I love this. I could get lost reading this when I did when we had our conversation. It's It's so fascinating, makes me feel hopeful. And I just love learning about it. I think we are running out of time, but I know that you, you had something for our audience, like a resource about what to consider when you're choosing probiotics and kind of help if anyone's starting out fresh, what what we should get, and we're going to share that from you on the episode page so people can can download it themselves. Great, after listening to our conversation, too. So I just want to thank you so much for joining us today. This has been an amazing conversation. I feel like I've learned so much and really can can put it into practice with my kids, not just my daughter who has allergies, but my son too, who, you know, we want everyone to have a healthy gut microbiome too.
Dr. Elisa Song:Absolutely.
Maureen:So thank you again. And thank you everyone for listening. Make sure you hit the subscribe button so you don't miss the latest podcast episode. And thank you to our sponsor. This episode is brought to you in part by Little Bellies organic pick me sticks. Introducing your baby to solid food is a big milestone for many mama's. Little Bellies organic pick me sticks are deliciously crisp organic popcorn snacks that gently melt in the mouth to encourage safe self feeding. Perfect for first stage snacking, the little bellies tasty textures range for seven plus months introduces subtle flavors and new texture experiences and large soft shapes that little hands can hold. This makes them great for helping the development of hand to mouth coordination. With Little Belllies you can enjoy the process with the perfect snacking option for tiny taste buds at the early stages of a lifelong food discovery journey. Thanks for conquering healthy living at all ages and stages of life with us