Raising Healthy Families with Moms Meet and KIWI

Sleep Solutions for Mom and Baby: An Interview with Carolynne Harvey

August 27, 2021 Moms Meet and KIWI magazine Season 1 Episode 3
Raising Healthy Families with Moms Meet and KIWI
Sleep Solutions for Mom and Baby: An Interview with Carolynne Harvey
Show Notes Transcript

The first few months after bringing your bundle of joy into the world can come with a slew of challenges, including a new routine and a whole lot less sleep. In this episode, Carolynne Harvey, baby sleep expert, author, and founder of Dream Baby Sleep, dishes on newborn sleep for expecting and new moms. Using her sleep tips and methodologies, you too can find a healthy balance for you and your little ones.

Chrissy:

Welcome to raising healthy families with Moms Meet and Kiwi. We're giving you the tools to enjoy the beauty and coas of life with little ones in the healthiest way possible. Hi everyone, I'm Chrissy, today's host we are so thrilled to have Carolynne Harvey with us today. Your new bundle of joy has just entered the world and with them a new routine and a whole lot less sleep. exhaustion starts to set in and you wonder if he'll ever sleep again. Overcoming the first few months of a newborn routine can be challenging, but there are steps you can take on your road to better sleep. Today we're chatting with Carolynne Harvey baby sleep expert author and founder of dream baby sleep about newborn sleep tips are expecting and new moms and the importance of sleep. If you're exhausted and unsure how to help your newborn sleep, we've got an affordable and easy to follow solution. Carolynne's newborn sleep 101 Mini class includes for short newborn sleep set lessons featuring her exclusive 60 minute newborn sleep webinar. Ideal for expecting and new parents with newborns ages zero to 16 weeks old, you'll learn exactly how to create a safe and healthy sleep environment and day and night confusion, ideal nap and bedtime routine, sleep crutches to avoid and how to gently teach your baby to self to set yourself and your baby up for long term sleep success and learn everything you need to know inside this newborn sleep class. newborn sleep one on one customers receive a VIP coupon for $50 off the sleep lab online training class for babies four months to toddlers four years old, ultimately making the newborn class free. So Carolynne's a certified infant and toddler sleep consultant, whose goal is to give your family the gift of healthy sleep. She is the founder of dream baby sleep and a formerly sleep deprived parent I love that. Did the family sleep Institute taking a private mentorship under the founder of the school, as well as receiving a certification from the Institute of pediatric sleep and parenting as a part of her continuing education. So thank you so much for joining us today. Carolynne.

Carolynne Harvey:

Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I love nothing more than solving sleep problems.

Chrissy:

Well, I know I personally cannot wait to talk with you about this topic. I'm expecting my third in November. And I know that sleep deprivation is just around the corner. So I'm so excited to pick your brain I selfishly put a lot of questions in in here that I thought would be helpful to you know, to all moms who are expecting and even moms who have had babies recently, and just to kind of get your feedback and ideas on on how to survive. Yeah, well, congratulations on baby number. Oh, yes. Amazing. Yeah, I feel like I forget. And I feel like all moms can relate to this. You forget how hard that first couple of months is with sleep deprivation and all of the all the things so it'll be interesting to navigate.

Carolynne Harvey:

Versus way of protecting us otherwise we likely would not have more children.

Chrissy:

Yes. Isn't that the truth? Well, to start, can you tell us a little bit more about why quality sleep is so important, both for infants and the parents?

Carolynne Harvey:

Yeah, absolutely. So you know, this is really where the science of sleep comes in sleep is is not a nice to have, right? It's not a luxury. It's a life necessity based on the science behind sleep. So you know, we don't talk about it enough. We're talking about it so much more. But um, you know, maternal mental health is just so critically important to have happy, healthy families, happy healthy babies and children need a happy healthy mommy so sweet for our mommies and daddies. But specifically our mommies in this example is so critically important. 75% of the human growth hormone, right, is that human growth hormone is produced at night when we sleep. And that human growth hormone for babies and children is what prevents juvenile diabetes. It's what boosts overall health and immunity in our bodies for babies and adults. So that human growth hormone is produced at night when we sleep. So why is sleep so important? It's critical for overall health and wellness. It's a must so really, you know, that whole like hashtag tired as a mother, right? It's not a badge of honor.

Chrissy:

Right?

Carolynne Harvey:

You shouldn't we should we, as moms shouldn't have to just accept our Well, you hear it all the time to you were like, well, you had a baby. What do you expect? Yes, of course, within one week, not every two to three hours at night to be mean, of course but what's that babies over four months old, we can certainly affect change and prioritize everybody's sleep. So it's super important.

Chrissy:

Yeah. Well, we and we know sleep is important. But how do we know if our baby is getting enough quality sleep right quality over quantity. So how do we know if it's quality sleep? Yeah, yeah.

Carolynne Harvey:

So it's important to note so I'm always referencing ages, right? So zero to four months, we do not sleep train, right, where we build our newborns. we're responding to all baby's cries, we're rocking, bouncing, shushing holding, feeding, to sue, right? We're doing everything humanly possible to maximize sleep for our newborns, because their bodies are growing and developing. So quickly, when we talk about quality of sleep. Quality is the is that you it is more geared towards three to four months and older babies don't start to develop patterns. And their sleep doesn't mature until about the 12. week mark, which is why we never ever sleep train early. So for newborns, quality really is quantity. So I'm talking zero to three months, we want to keep that baby napping during the day offering nap every 45 to 60 minutes from the last time they woke up, right? That's a quality day, meaning nap for a newborn, as I'm sure you remember to be as short as 20 minutes. And as long as two hours, right, so that's considered normal 20 minutes to two hours, but nap for a newborn is considered normal. So that's a big window. So the key to success is to make sure that you offer that nap every 45 to 60 minutes from the last time they woke up. Okay. And that's during the newborn baby phase.

Chrissy:

That's Yeah, that's really good. I never thought of it that way. And I love that you categorize it based on their age, right? Because to your point, every age is so different, especially in that first year. You know, and I know, you know, we always say like, well, when is my baby gonna start to sleep through the night, but it really just depends on the age and, and things like that.

Carolynne Harvey:

And it's usually two Oh, let me touch base on quality for once they're four months and older. So quality, once they're four months and older, means your naps are lasting 60 minutes or longer, right. So once they're four months and older, we ideally want to be on three naps schedule at approximately nine noon and re nap one at nap two shouldn't be 60 minutes or longer, then you check the box that we have had a quality nap. If we're asleep for less than 16 minutes for now, once we're over four months of age, we're having low quality naps, and we need to work on lengthening those naps. Quality night sleep, for over the age of four months would be approximately 11 to 12 hours. And that could absolutely include two fields. At that age perfectly age appropriate. I'm not talking about sleeping through the night. But quality would be about 11 to 12 hours at night with two beads built in. You could be unknown at that age, maybe people are but two beads is very age appropriate. So that's what we're talking about quality sleep once they're over four months.

Chrissy:

That's good to know. Um, now I know you had you know, you're talking about feeding in the middle of the night and I know personally when my daughter was young, she was definitely old enough to be able to, you know, put her back this part herself back to sleep but she got into a routine where she started to want to nurse just to soothe herself back to sleep. She wasn't hungry, but she wanted that comfort. So I think I know that that's a bad habit. But how do you break that and and and how do you kind of change that habit for them?

Carolynne Harvey:

Yep. So it's perfectly natural bottle or breast babies fall asleep. Comfort feeding right regardless of whether it's bottle or breast I don't particularly like to call it a bad habit. Because you know, all bets are off the record once you can absolutely. feed your baby to see what's there for months and older. That's when we want to start moving away from the natural comfort feeding. Because baby does not necessarily need food, right? Think about it this way. When your kids 13 years old, they wake up crying in the middle of the night you're not going to offer them a box of doughnuts. Right, right. That's once babies over the age of four months old. We do want to move away from feeding and holding to sleep. Okay, so what that means is as it relates to feeding To move away from that habit is to move the feet to the front of your bedtime routine. So you really want to do bottle or breast, bath, books. What ends up happening is people tend to do that works, why breast and then that? Yep, so those four B's, right, I want your feeding bottle your breasts to be forced in your routine. What that does, it also makes for a much more purposeful beam, because we have a more alert and awake, baby, right? Not dozing off on a bottle of rest. So they're getting those calories in which are going to naturally help them sleep longer at night. So there's a lot of purpose to moving the feed to the front of your bedtime routine and your nap routine. That's the first way you can move away from it. But then Christie, I mean, don't get me wrong, we're like you're on. So baby is literally falling asleep. So you have to do like cheeky little things, and you know, tickler baby. So, you know, I had to work on that day, a washcloth under my daughter's face every now and then I also when we're moving that feed to the front of the routine, instead of doing the feed in in the nursery and the chair with the white noise on in the dark room offer the beating, you know, in a brighter space. So we're not making it really conducive to sleep at that point. Yeah, I do have an eight step night weaning guide. So definitely, your viewers can check that out on my Instagram they can it's in a link in our bio at Dream Baby Sleep where they DMS us but I have an eight step nightly guide by libres. And for our older audience with older kids, even toddlers, I have a lot of toddler mommies, we're still feeding at night because that baby is there like I can't put him to sleep. He won't go back to sleep in the middle of the night unless I give him a bottle I'm like how many ounces two ounces? Well we know that that's not a nutritional need. That's one. So we have a beautiful eight step strategy to help you overcome that but it started moving the feet to the front of the routine and then slowly reducing the quantity quantity of either time for the breasts or ounces in the bottle. And then once you stop it completely we always think oh heads gonna break loose right? Now what Carolynne now what do I do? Well now you have to choose a sleep training method that you're comfortable with and we use for very gentle methods sleep training does not have to mean cry it out. It we don't i don't practice it. We use checking console pick it down to your method and file a chunk for our toddlers I support cry it out because they support toys. But most of our clients are coming to us looking for other options. So as far as the night meeting is concerned when you're ready to wean at night or move away from feeding at the bedtime. Inevitably baby's gonna start protesting like Hey lady. Where's where's where's the move? Okay, you're aggravating me what I want okay, but you know bottle or breast right? So once that happens then at that's when it really panics, baby's crying now Why? Okay, so the answer to that is you could for example, with your former bowl, you could use paper put down where you bend baby at the beginning of the bedtime routine babies already aged four months old, you're using an age appropriate bedtime which means no later than 7:30pm

no later than 7:

30pm stay with me

Chrissy: No later than 7:

30pm

Carolynne Harvey:

Early bedtime, early bedtime early bedtime if we leverage the timing Behind the Science of sleep you will minimize 50% of school challenges in leverage the right age appropriate bedtime that's my tip number one if your listeners do one thing if you're like that crazy chick Carolynne had a lot to say. But the one thing she said if I do nothing else I need to make sure my bedtime is dialed in and age appropriate. We have a bedtime by age chart but the moral of the story is absolutely no later than 7:30pm. So so so important, okay, but Chrissy just real quick if you know if you put the baby down and move up to the front of routine so we can move away from this habit. Now you're going to start to implement pick up put down to baby starts crying. There's no wait period, you pick up baby, put around your shoulder pat pat, shush. It's okay. It's nighttime. It's not For sleep, hold her until she's calm, not asleep on you. But calm, place her down, rinse and repeat that ultimately is pick up put down. It's a great way of moving away from feeding to sleep, assuming your baby is under the age of 12 months old. Pick up put down, is it? Okay to break your back?

Chrissy:

Right? Yeah, for sure. And I can only imagine. Yeah, yeah. So I know you keep mentioning the four month age, right. So and obviously, the million dollar question everybody I'm sure you get all the time is, when can I expect my babies to start sleeping through the night? And I know you keep saying for months, but every child at the end of the day is different. So I guess at what point would you say it starts to get concerning when they aren't sleeping through the night and you know that you need to have some sort of intervention or figure out what to do for next steps?

Carolynne Harvey:

Yeah. So first, it's super important to define what sleeping through the night mean. sleeping through the night does not mean 12 hours, go to bed at 7pm and wake up at 7am that is not realistic. We expectation set and print ABC without clients. So you know what's considered age appropriate and normal sleep habits or sleep hygiene. Okay. So sleeping through the night means a six to eight hour stretch. Okay, that can occur when they're about three to four months old. Usually never before they're over 13 pounds. Okay. So usually, scientifically speaking, a baby is able to sleep through the night on a regular basis at about five to six months full. Okay, but let's remember, we've been through the night means go to bed, but we was easy now. Right? Go to bed at 7pm wake up for a feed at midnight. 1am. Right. So you get that strength at six hours stretch. That means you're babysitting through the night. Okay. So you know, realistically, my favorite, favorite favorite age to sleep train. Oh, baby, five months old. together so beautifully. Quickly. I don't know why I wish I had a research grant to study it. To see if I was you. A lot of my mommies are going back to work. Right though in that 12 weeks maternity leave. That's a whole nother conversation. Yes. More time off. Yeah. That's a different conversation. A lot of my mommies are like, Carolynne, I need to turn that baby at four months on the button. Yeah. Why didn't come to me and want to stick to it 12 weeks? I won't do it. Yeah. Never ever, ever, prior to 16 weeks from your estimated due date, not your delivery date. So if you deliver two weeks early, I'm going to make you wait two more weeks of a adjusting age. Or say 18 months from when you deliver. Okay, that is super, super important. You won't be successful. And that's why I won't do it. And you know, I have a team of amazing certified newborn baby and toddler consultants on my team. They've all mentored under me for years. We have clients beg us to start training in 12 weeks you won't do it, baby start to produce that beautiful smooth hormone, which is melatonin body naturally produces that they don't even start to produce it until the end of the fourth trimester which is about the 10 to 12 week mark, which is why newborn sleep patterns are so erratic sleep starts to mature and develop at about the 12 week mark, which is why we wait till the 16 mark. Right. So we really need that body producing melatonin before we start to eat drink. Right? And we need it really developed. So really, if I had a choice, I would wait I would not be trapped for months until five months. Because and I know you're burning questions about the credit for months to progression. But I do like to ride that out and we wait until five months. You could have a baby sleeping from 6:30pm waking up for one scheduled night to if you have a tiny baby I had a tiny baby so tonight is perfectly appropriate that would be considered the max. You could have a baby going to bed at

6:

30pm first night feed at midnight. second night feed minimum four hours later. So let's call for 5am and awake for the day. It's I am now one at 9am 16 minutes plus now to noon catnap in the late afternoon sometime around before bam, that's that's your, your 49 month old schedule. Right. And you could achieve sleeping through the night in that manner. Right? Those feeds built in at the five month mark. Easy, easy. Yeah, it really comes together in three to five days. I don't know why,

Chrissy:

Yeah. Well, I might need to hire you after you bring it on. I'm here for you. So you mentioned, you know, I know mothers the stress of going back to work after having a baby. And typically that's about 12 weeks, where they're going back to work. what suggestions do you have for moms who are going back to work and they're sending their babies to daycare or even a mother or father in law is basically anyone other than yourself that is responsible for sticking with the naps? And sometimes they don't do that. So that will affect the nighttime sleep? do you suggest giving like a strict schedule? Or what do you typically what kind of advice do you give to moms who are dealing with that?

Carolynne Harvey:

Yeah, so a large majority of our clients are working parents dual working parents, you know, I started doing baby sleep in the Upper East Side in New York City. So you know, we're very accustomed to working with clients who have multiple alternate caregivers, as well as daycares, whether it's in home or out of the home. And the first thing that is so emotional, it's so hard for us and mommies and daddies going back to work and leaving baby. No, first and foremost, that baby is going to thrive and do amazing, it's going to crush you. It's an adjustment period. be easy with yourself and know that this is extremely common. And baby will do wonderfully. With that said, I'm a big advocate of controlling what you can not there and you can't control it. You're going to drive your nuts, you're going to drive yourself nuts trying to control it. So we want to offer a guide, right? We do want to offer a schedule and a routine. But you know, if you have a partner or husband or wife, everybody does it a little different, right? So we have to first understand that everybody does a little different. If I had one thing that I could pick, right? That I would say okay, they care, okay, caregiver, nanny, Grandma, cousin, whoever. If I had one horn fastball that I was like, if you do anything, just please do this. It would be three things. napping in a dark environment. blackout curtains, continuous white noise and timing. Right. So four to nine months old, three naps a day at about 939 to 14 months old, two naps a day at about nine and one has to swing 30 minutes each way. Right? You may be hustlin and you may be super diligent on schedule, Grandma, maybe like 130? Well, it's not going to end Don't overthink it. Okay. Even when you have an off nap day or hobo baby skipped every now. And then. Okay, so you can only control what you can.

Chrissy:

Yeah. And is it a myth? Or is it true? Where I know, I've I've always kind of gone into if a baby is or even a child goes to bed later than they'll sleep later, I have experienced the opposite where they end up waking up earlier.

Carolynne Harvey:

Right, you're right, it isn't. Right late. bedtime does not mean sleeping late. It means the opposite. number one cause of multiple night waking. That time being too late. Yeah, number one cause of early rising, that time being too late. So it feels counterintuitive, right? My other baby rising at 5am. And their bedtime is 8pm. I need to make it seven or 715. Or let's just not get carried away. Let's just call it seven days a week. Yeah, yeah. So my rule of thumb is if you have an early riser, wherever your bedtime ends, I have clients who are like, Oh, my bedtime is 930. She's saying 730 I'm there. I can't just go jump there. Slowly shave 15 minutes off your bedtime every two to three nights until you

land at no later than 7:

30pm. Right. Slow and steady wins the race here. Please help me sleep is science based. My entire practice is science based timing, timing tight. Don't mess with my timing. You got to trust me on this one. I've been doing this for nine years. I can name that tune with a timing problem. Somebody like my baby short napping, my baby's waking up multiple times a night. First thing we address is the timing. Yeah, it's super, super, super important. The time solves everything for bedtime or bedtime, probably dead time, or babies or end adults, or going to bed chronically too late here in the States. And so, yeah, so important. I have a good friend who has a family member with Alzheimer's number one treatment protocol. At this, this current state of Alzheimer's is to hygiene, getting them as much sleep as humanly possible. Sleep is for our brain. Just like breakfast, lunch and dinner. That nutrition that goes into our bellies is food for our body. It makes our body grow big and strong, sleep is what makes our brains grow big and strong. Yeah, so you know, early bedtime early bedtime is so key. It's critical to our overall health and wellness. And honestly, any problem that you're having, the first thing we look at is bedtime and timing over naps. It's it can solve so many problems. And then of course, how we respond to baby when they're when it's not a feed, right. It's not a night feed and babies waking up. Now why? Right? That's where you choose a sleep training method that you're comfortable with. And like we said earlier does not have to mean by it out. Like sleep training is such a dirty word sometimes, right? We didn't post about sleep training in a Facebook group and good luck to you. Talking about whether or not you back so don't that. Yeah, it's crazy. It's a sweet training to not eat will fry it out. Right? Yes, that is an option. However, there are very gentle sleep training methods. Pick up put down, talked about earlier checking console with checks to checking on your baby every three minutes. If you're like, you know, I can't wait outside of the room during any crime. I want to be in the room with my baby. No problem. Your chair method. Okay. For my cheeky toddlers, we're running out of the room 100 times and I'm staying in her bed like your four year old probably yes, yes. Yeah. Silent return silent return combined with chair method for my toddlers mature until they fall asleep. Silent return when they wake up and behavior that doesn't yield results will stop.

Chrissy:

Yeah. So I'm sure you hear this from every single one of your clients. At a certain point, you as a parent, you all you want to sleep and sometimes we just end up doing the easiest thing to get everyone back to sleep. So whether that means letting your child into bed with you or nursing them to get them back to sleep because it's just easier and quicker. Yeah. How do you suggest is there like a happy medium of survival mode but also helping, you know, helping with the sleeping and coaching and encouraging your child to get back to sleep on their own?

Carolynne Harvey:

Yeah, absolutely. So I know survival mode also. Well, I suffered with undiagnosed postpartum depression and anxiety for quite some time. So you know, reaching out for help is super important. You cannot bear this load alone. I am a single parent. So for some of us alone is the only option and that's okay. If you don't have a village find one. Yeah, yeah, for help. There's a lot of free organizations that you can reach out to if you're struggling with depression and anxiety, raise your right hand tell caregiver tell a friend or family member DM me on Instagram, I can guide you to tons and tons of awesome free resources there. But as it relates to survival mode, yeah, you know, sometimes we just have to survive. Okay, so you got to break rules, right? Um, I would prefer that you broke down as neatly as possible. pick up the pieces. I can just hot glue gun, one or two pieces back together. Yeah, instead of taking the shattered window pane and 1000 different pieces. So yeah, what do I mean by that? What I mean by that is your toddler leaving the room 100 times and you have the option of bringing that toddler into your bed or sleeping in their bed with them and or on their floor. I choose option do stay in a room with them on their floor or their bed. Okay? You would avoid bring them into your bed. Okay, so this is how we are going to choose the best of the worst option, right? So if you need to nurse your baby to sleep because you're like I can't I just can't Take it tonight. I'm not going I can't stand up anymore, right? Yeah, you are going to nurse your baby to sleep and avoid bringing baby into bed that's ultimately the rule of thumb. So if you can avoid bringing baby into your bed baby or toddler that says I'd be remiss if I didn't touch on the safety of sleep Academy of Pediatrics recommends that we room share not bed share right yeah baby in the room with us up to age six months is that being the recommendation? And they suggested up to 12 months Believe it or not, so they're saying minimum six months up to 12 months is room sharing up bed chair. We want a designated safe sleeping space for baby that's a crib bassinet or pack and play. They've been mattress fitted crib sheet or bassinet. She only applied to the surface okay. I previously been shared with my daughter is very close to me about this way and or shame or judgment. I get DMS galore. From all sorts of advocacy routes about safe bed sharing. I'm sorry, there just isn't a safe way to do it. Yeah, there just isn't a safe way to do it. And I speak very candidly and very openly about it. Because I have clients who have suffered the loss of a baby and when you have a conversation with a mommy who has lost the baby finances, it permanently changes and alters your life your view and how I speak about it so I speak so directly I have a very strong point of view. too. Not bed share it. Adult mattresses are not safety designed for babies. That's the biggest reason he spent 1000s of dollars on these plush pillow top mattresses. Yeah, that's not safe for a baby. Yeah, the blankets the comforters even the sheen. Nevermind that your your, you know your body, your partner's body in the bed. It's not designed for baby. Yummy, all of your reasons why it's safe. That's fine. I have the conversations all the time. It's changed me. I am a part of first candle, which is a 501 c three amazing organization. They're on a quest to end since desk here in the States. And if you want accurate information on safety for babies, please visit first candle I am a cc 30 and for them. So when we talk about rules to break and not break. Number one is safety to it's wicked hard to move away from sleeping with a baby in your bed to having them sleep on their own. Yeah, you're just setting yourself up for a long fall. Nevermind the safety issues of a painful transition period. Yeah, here's a lot of awesome products that you could put in your room right next to your bed and even attached to that very simple. There's tons of brands arm's reach co sleeper. Their thing is for moms bassinet, really affordable smart bassinet. There's traditional bassinets that are stationary. I have clients who are on tight budgets and they're in one bedroom apartments right. So they're living major Metro they're in a one bedroom apartment. And they have baby in a pack and play in their room.

Unknown:

Mm hmm.

Carolynne Harvey:

Because you that pack and play up right next to your bed. And what's the difference? They might as well be sleeping literally like touching the side of your bed. Yeah, right, you baby and their designated safe sleeping space for safety reasons. And also it fosters confidence and independence and will help you and baby sleep independently even sooner. Yep, so, you know we all break goals, right? I tell everybody, raise your right hands. hit the reset button. Get back to basics. Look at your timing. Look at your age appropriate bedtime. Choose the sleep training method you're comfortable with if all hell broke loose just hit the reset button and start again and you can get right back on track. She was like muscle memory. Yeah please reach out to us two year three years old they've been be sharing since day one weigh from it in five to seven days Yeah. It's not as difficult a you think you're afraid of i right right everybody thinks al Hell's gonna break loose. Yeah read of it, but honestly, babie And toddlers are so adaptable right? Yeah, it's just like we have a new way of doing sleep now. And we have a little plan and thoughtful support, I have a bunch of classes that you can check out for all different age groups. There's one on one support, if you need that, that's not in your budget, I have a $14 ebook, that will literally give you all the timing and breakdown of exactly how to apply the method. And the beauty of my ebook is that it's wicked short, who has time to read a 200 page book that you can just go to the nap chart, it's one page chart, look at your baby's age and what time they actually date. Right? You need to help your plan. But honestly, we'll come together quickly. You can do it.

Chrissy:

Yeah, I love that. Because I feel like and I know, the dread of the transition, knowing that you need to break the habit and you just don't you know, it's gonna be hard. But to your point, it's like five days, right? Five days of difficulty, but then you turn the corner and things just get easier. And everyone's happier. Right? Like you said in the beginning with with sleep anyone can be happy person.

Carolynne Harvey:

Exactly. And you know, we have so desperately after success story where mom is terrified of the crime right now, into the church, so I can't wait three minutes. Probably what are your cry talent, all this hubbub about the crying you're crying, you're crying. And then we start sleep training. No crying, no crying because once we honor the timing, and the science of sleep, we get in front of it, we can minimize that protest to the point where it honestly sometimes doesn't happen. Like Yeah, oh, that's not every case. But more often than not mom and dad are like, Oh my gosh, and I know that it was gonna be this quick. And baby was gonna be flossing for 10 to 15 minutes, a couple of nights. And that was that I had done this six months ago.

Chrissy:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we, my husband, and I just experienced this with our four year old so I was sharing with you a little bit. She was my more difficult child was sleeping. And actually it kind of segues into my next question. But she would come into our room every night. And she would end up at like age three, she'll climb into bed with us didn't I didn't even know because I was dead asleep. And so what we ended up doing was putting like a little cot next to our bed. So she slept there. But then that was just another crash, right? Like that was another another thing that we just had to had to get past. So we recently retrained her to just stay in her own bed. And again, it was hard for like five days, but that now she's like totally sleeping through the night by herself. And it's a miracle. It's amazing. But that kind of segues into my next question of you know, you're totally an expert when it comes to BBC. But do you have any tips that you can share? You know, to help older kids get back to sleep or anyone that still struggling with sleep issues?

Carolynne Harvey:

Yeah, yeah. So myself and my team, unlike many of the sleep consulting companies, we take toddlers up to age four years old. toddler Wizard of Oz like we do so toddlers will eat your brain in the middle of the night. Right? I mean, they are forced to be reckoned Yes. cheeky toddlers. So with toddlers, which we're really talking about 18 months old, that's when I actually become toddlers. Right? But yeah, two years, three years, four years old. Super important to first of all, validate them, it seems silly to say to a three year old that Hey, no wake up at night. Did you know that mommy and daddy wake up a bunch of times a night. It's super normal. This is what you do when you wake up, right? You give them an action plan. And we teach the sleep level to toddlers is one of my favorite to pass. So you validate to your toddler, we all wake up at night, it's okay. What you're gonna do when you wake up is you're gonna do the sleep we will teach it to them during daytime during mealtime or snack time when they're happy content. And you say well, you're gonna go over and this is you're gonna add motion to it. I like some of those silly little dances, chicken dance and things like that. Right. So you're going to say that you sleep with a mummy and daddy do this. You're going to roll over your shoulders, you're going to grab your lovely Valley blanket wherever their jam is right? They love. You're going to reach out your arms and pull it to your chest. You're going to close your eyes, wave your hand over your eyes down towards your nose past your mouth with a line will close your eyes. And you're going to snuggle in, and that's when we wiggle our whole body and our Fanny down to the ground, right? So we teach this to them. an actionable step that they can take it empowers them to feel in control. Number one with your toddlers to you're gonna make sure your bedtime girl, right, and then teach them the sleep level. And then my second favorite toddler sleep pack is really need to empower them. Those little devils want to feel in control. They don't like the way you cut the sandwich. Yeah. They don't like the color of the straw. They don't like the color of the socks, you know, you know? Oh, yeah, for sure. When we can build an empowerment throughout our bedtime routine, it's really going to take some of that tension that they feel and that power struggle that they're aiming for. We want to give them the power as much as humanly possible. And I like to introduce what's called the bedtime pass. You and I Chrissy, we know it's again, right? We're going to give it to them every single night. Yeah. So what's your four year olds name again? Olivia. Olivia. So you would say okay, Olivia. Just you know, at bedtime, mommy has something new. It's called the bedtime pass. So if you want one more, insert your favorite thing. One more. One more snuggle one more song. One more good night to the dog, whatever. As long as it doesn't take you out of the room. It can't be go downstairs pet the cat 10 times from the lights leave outside to the right to get a lot of that crazy long stuff. It has to stay in the room, right? And you say okay, Olivia, mommy's gonna give you what's called a bedtime pass. And you can use it once a night. It's a really special privilege. But once you use the bedtime pass is bedtime. Okay? She looks at you like you're not and you go about your day. Then it becomes bedtime and inevitably comes our toddler bustle. Yeah. And you do the whole books and stories and you're in the room and you said goodnight to the dog, and then your lights off and you're leaving. And she never really said Mama, one more story. One more song, whatever the thing is, you then turn to her and say, Would you like to use your bedtime pass? And now she feels in control? Uh huh. And she's like, Yes, Yes, I would. Right. And even if they're not extremely verbal, if you're younger, two years old. 18 months old, as long as they understand you and calculating their way back. It does require buy in when you want to use your bedtime pass. Yes. Yes, Mama. Okay, great. Olivia, once I give you one more story. It is that time and money is leaving. Okay. It requires a second buy in. Yes, Mama. You give her one more story. You say okay, great job. Love you night night. And you're out of there. And they're like, Ha, I don't want on her. Yeah, I picked mommy tonight. kind of really feel empowered. And it tends to, you know, take any tension or power struggle, right? If they're ramping up, you can just deflate that and really calm things down and make for a much more peaceful transition. So as you're walking out of the room, you could say Olivia, don't forget. At night, you sleep we go love you. And then in the morning, again, with toddlers, we staggered this over a couple of days. You can't hit them with this all at once. You want to kind of speak to a toddler in the form of tea, right? snackable content, and it's longer than a tweet. It's too long. Attention. I love that. Yeah, yes. Stagger it out. Don't biggest mistake parents make I see it all the time. They're rationalizing. Yeah. You're like these little emotional beings that are learning all sorts of new feelings. You cannot rush on. Stop having adult conversations. Yeah. speak to them in short, snackable ways, empower them, give them tools that they can use. And then number one praise and celebration. So I think normally took Olivia 90 minutes to fall asleep at bedtime. And tonight it took her 88 minutes. Doesn't feel like much to you the next morning. The next morning. You're gonna High Five dad be like Olivia did so good last night. Oh, man, she's improving. This makes me so happy. Mommy is so happy. And I can't wait is the important part. I can't wait until you do even better. Let's celebrate you. And the celebration is not a prize or a gift. The behavior is lower. But the celebration is like a dance party or a Hip hip hooray. and cheer is at dinnertime or lunchtime with the family. a pillow braid something to incorporate for your family. The attention they love the validation and they love you know, praise and celebration, so really, really got to go big or go home and commerce. It's multi levels. It doesn't all magically come together at once in power Or validate and give them actionable steps that they can take? And then of course, follow through with a sleep training method if you need to.

Chrissy:

Yeah, yeah. And I love that. And I know, you know, one of the most important things to remember is that every single child is different. So there's no formula that will will help every single person exactly as they want. But with the tools that you were talking about today, it's it. I mean, I feel like anyone can be successful if they stick with it and use those tools. So we love that. And we just have time for one more question. So I know you were telling us about some of the things that you do for your clients. But can you tell us more about some of the other services that you provide?

Carolynne Harvey:

Yeah, absolutely. So we have a bunch of different levels of service. I mentioned the E book dream baby nights, it's available on Amazon. It's available on dream abc.com. I really wanted to make sleep training affordable and easily accessible to the masses. So I created what's called the sleep lab. It is an online video class, it is sleep training for four months to four years old. It's short video tutorials for mom and dad to take. It includes all the training methods teaches you exactly how to choose a method that's right for your family, based on your cry tolerance, your baby's temperament. And because I include all four inside the sleep lab, you can mix and match them, right. So you might do checking console at bedtime. And then in the middle of the night, you might do chair method based on your babies. The $149 and also I just created brand brand new is my newborn mini class, as you know, Mommy, you are so you've got so much going on your kids. It's a mini class I I'm a big fan of short and sweet. Let's land the plane, you need information like I'm talking about the meat and the potatoes without the potatoes. Yeah, just the meat. Let's get down and dirty. Tell me exactly what I need to do. My newborn mini class is only $19.99. And it's an it's again an online class. And it's teaching you all of those habits and that healthy sleep foundation that you need to set with your newborn, the newborn mini class so that you can prevent and avoid problems about avoiding problems, how to set a healthy Foundation, how to avoid day and night confusion, how to set yourself up on a nap and a bedtime routine. So that warranty class is brand new. And when you find the new one class it actually comes with a $50 coupon for the sleep lab. So ultimately, it makes the new one class free and still gives you $30 off the sweet lab so you basically could have them both for just about $110 which is pretty awesome. From there if you're like you know what, Carolynne, I'm not a DIY I need you to tell me exactly what to do. I want to talk to you every day or be in communication I can't help because this is too much for me. T hat's my one on one support with myself and my amazing team come in we have packages that range from baby and toddler many success if you only have one or two issues maybe eating it or rising mini seats excessive or break for you all the way up to two week customs and training programs. So you can definitely check out all those awesome services at dream baby seat calm or on Instagram at dream baby sleep they're all in the link in our bio make sure you go to the link in our bio on acting baby sleep I have loads of free resources like I legit give all this stuff away for free great I'm a for profit business pay me I love that let me tell you something if you need free resources you have come to the right place for my sleep regression Survival Guide free eight step Nate meaning guide free that time by age chart free exactly how to apply check and console YouTube video free three part video series how to set yourself up for a healthy Sleep Foundation, teach self soothing and how to understand the four most popular sleep training methods.

Chrissy:

Alive love it. I love that you're so passionate and confident in your recommendations and solutions that you know you offer both kind of sides for moms or and dads who are just really struggling so they can get that quick, you know, free guide some tools for them. But then also the more intimate and personal connection that you can make, as you know, kind of connecting with those parents directly. So I love that.

Carolynne Harvey:

Absolutely, absolutely. There is an option for everybody. And those free resources are an amazing place to start. If I had one suggestion for everybody listening, it would be download the bedtime by age chart. If you're like I have no idea where to start. This is so overwhelming. I didn't even hear what you said. Download the bedtime by age. Start and start with age appropriate bedtime.

Chrissy:

Yeah, yeah, that's really important. I love that. I'm definitely gonna check that out because I probably am putting my kids to bed too late.

Carolynne Harvey:

Okay, everybody is. Yeah, blame or shame wherever you are is right when you're shaving. Yeah, what you're doing is no longer working for you. It's no longer serving you. You used to lay with your baby to have the toddler to go to sleep and that was okay. And now you're like, You know what? I don't have two hours from 7pm to 9pm to lay with my toddler anymore. Or, you know what mommy wants her body and space back. And I need time for myself. This is serving me anymore. Yeah, it's okay to say this isn't serving me anymore and make a change.

Chrissy:

Yeah. I love that. This episode is brought to you in part by Hippo Sak. trying to start a compost pile but don't know where to start. Or maybe you're looking for an alternative to plastic trash bags. paper sack offers innovative products that benefit the environment while delivering high performance. All Hippo Sak products are manufactured at 100% in the USA, with a low carbon footprint and very low water usage. All of its products are made with the goal of reducing pollution while offering high quality sustainable products. Hippo Sak is the green leader in sustainable products. Here's what's new at mom's meat and KIWI magazine. Don't miss KIWI magazine's fall issue out now. We're covering how you can create a more connected family through peaceful parenting and back to school tips, tricks, supplies and so much more. Make sure you apply to the latest sampling programs. Right now a moms meet you can apply to try Barilla Creamy Genovese Pesto, In the Raw Optimal Zero Calorie Sweetener blend, Wild Planet Foods Wild Tuna Pasta Salad, and SOS Kids Hydration featuring Paw Patrol. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Carolynne. I feel like I had a personal therapy session with you. Now I have all the tools that I need. Yeah, I love it. And honestly, like I mentioned the beginning, you know, I've had two kids. So I've gone through this but you forget right you forget like the process and the schedules and, and all of that. So it's nice to have a refresher. So I really appreciate that.

Carolynne Harvey:

You that You that. It was so great to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I love what you guys are doing. And, you know, keep up the great work. You're really providing some awesome resources for parents.

Chrissy:

Yeah, for sure. And thank you to everyone listening, make sure you hit that like and subscribe button to make sure you don't miss the latest episodes of our podcast. Next week. We are talking with Dr. Joellen Russell from Science Moms about how moms can do their part to combat climate change. So thank you again for joining us and we look forward to checking out your website. Bye, guys. Thank you. All right. Bye